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Discussion topic: First 5 days, some thoughts….

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This message was authored by Neil-C This message was authored by: Neil-C

First 5 days, some thoughts….

I have had a Sky Stream puck for 5 days now and I have some initial thoughts on it as a product and from the perspective of someone who has done UAT as part of previous roles in the tech industry. I can confidently say having also used an AppleTV 4K, a FireTV and AndroidTV the Stream Puck does beat the latter two but mostly comes up short against the AppleTV 4K, although beating it in one area: Stream support HLG which AppleTV does not. None of the below are absolute deal breakers however if I do keep the stream puck it will likely only be for liveTV and Sky content and keep AppleTV 4K for everything else. 

 

Apologies If these have been brought up already, hopefully if I'm not a lone voice, maybe sky will address those which will deliver a decent return on the CAPEX.

 

  1. Software:
    Entertainment OS is slow and often ends up hanging. I am not sure if the hardware is underpowered for the OS or if the bulk of the front end is actually streamed to the box much like a Thin Client or Remote Desktop. If it's the latter I'm worried for anyone with a connection less than 1Gbps. If it's the former then seems like the testing phase of the project was lacking. 
  2. Apps:
    Most seem very slow to load, it's incredibly pronounced on the likes of PrimeVideo and AppleTV+ but none are exactly fast to load. This said, it is nice that when you pop out of watching something on an app it creates a now playing tile which does switch back pretty smoothly. 
  3. Voice Search:
    I am hoping this improves the more I use it however, it doesn't to the best when it comes to searching in app libraries especially compared to using the text input search function. 
  4. Picture Quality:
    This is a massive let down, I am paying for the UHD and Dolby add-on but, comparing the same content on various apps between the Stream puck and AppleTV 4K, there is no comparison. HD content on the AppleTV 4K is skillfully upscaled retaining crisp and vibrant pictures however on the Stream puck is what can best be called fuzzy. 4K content on the stream puck looks overly processed and a bit "soft" when you compare this with 4K content on the AppleTV box, it is miles ahead in terms of quality. 
  5. Power settings:
    I am all for saving money by reducing power consumption of consumer devices. However, I question why there is no way to fine tune the settings, or, at the very least make it content aware. I've noticed if you don't move the remote whilst watching a film, about half way through you get a warning the box is going to sleep. I've dug around in the settings and there seems to be no way to tweak the amount of time before the box goes into sleep mode. I am aware devices like TVs and STBs now have to have pretty good power saving options but common sense would say allow the user some control. 

Possible solutions:

 

  1. Software:
    This is likely the easiest to fix, look at trimming the code down, is it bloated? Can you do the same with less? If the front end is indeed being streamed, can the boxes handle a little more code being executed locally? Or do you need to increase your backhaul to your CDN to ensure a better end user experience. 
  2. Apps:
    See 1
  3. Voice Search
    This is something which can be fixed with further development, maybe look at leveraging something like Anthropic's LLM to improve search. And, of course, you can work with app providers on improving global search. 
  4. Picture Quality:
    This may be harder to fix, I suspect it's GPU related so may require new hardware. Of course if this is something which can be fixed with new code then do it!
  5. Power Settings
    Another software update would allow you to fix this.

Finally, one option which could fix all of the above in a stroke is leveraging AppleTV hardware. It is a core function within tvOS so not specific to Sky/Comcast but would allow the AppleTV 4K to essentially become the next stream puck, thereby saving on hardware and software development costs. This is something Sky's parent company Comcast do in the US and EE TV does here in the UK. Sky could ship the AppleTV boxes to customers so all they have to do is create an Apple ID if they don't have one already and bang, all the channels, TV guide, on demand etc are already there. Or users could chose to use their own AppleTV box and sign in using their email and password. Obviously there is never going to be a one size fits all option, which I suspect is why there's Sky Glass and Sky Stream. Personally, if I was the product owner, I would ditch the expense of developing expensive hardware and just offer the Stream as a service through a tie in with AppleTV, Having not used Sky Glass I can't really comment but the reviews I have seen so far have not been overly gushing when it comes to picture quality on the Glass although they have improved since the initial release.

The Sky Glass reviews to  go to show how much work needs to go into this sort of thing and why, using a piece of hardware that already has good reviews and has the functionality you need seems like a way to improve CSAT whilst reducing development costs and drive more users to your service. 

 

Anyway, none of this is meant to sound like, URGH it's all bloody rubbish, I do quicte like the service albeit, it does still feel like a work in progress. But kudos to Sky for looking to the future and being cognisant that DSAT isn't going to be around forever as more and more folks move over to IPTV solutions as it's easier and doesn't require a dish. 

 

 

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This message was authored by Nigelb1972 This message was authored by: Nigelb1972

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

1) we're on 500mbps fibre and the OS is zippy with no hanging.

2) apps load quickly and in a comparable time to the native ones on our Samsung QLED.

3) Voice search works fine providing you speak clearly and keep the button pressed.

4) either check your settings or get a better TV because the picture quality is outstanding.

5) E.U. regulations re power savings. It doesn't take a lot of effort to jiggle the remote. I've done it twice during the football tonight and I imagine that I'll have to do it again soon .. thank christ I get an on screen prompt.

Solutions..

1) if you think you can do better than Comcasts fleet of programmers, apply for a job with one of the worlds largest broadcast companies.

2) as above 

3) it works, you're just not using it properly.

4) it's a Xumo box and is sold around the world and is praised for it's picture quality. Check your settings or buy a better tv.

5) they can't do this as it's an E.U. directive that has been as adopted by the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Neil-C
Topic Author
This message was authored by Neil-C This message was authored by: Neil-C

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

@Nigelb1972 Apologies it wasn't my intent to annoy anyone with my post, just trying to offer constructive feedback.  

I hope you are managing to enjoy the football,  and what is left of the weekend. 🙂 

This message was authored by mikealanr This message was authored by: mikealanr

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Neil-C  I'll be honest not read all your post as a bit tl;dr but just as an FYI we are fellow subscribers on the forum, not Sky. There isnt any certainty that your post will be read by them.

 

However i have a glass and 4 pucks and like @Nigelb1972 genuinely don't experience hanging (on some occasions and a restart usually fixes). It would be interesting to see who your ISP is as I do agree, there are so many variations that Sky can't account for them all and experience seems to vary massively based on router capability and connection speed.

 

MikeAlanR

---
65” Sky Glass ocean blue, Sky Live, 4 streaming pucks and EE FTTP Busiest Home (circa 1.6 Gbps download). Former Sky Q, Sky+ HD and Sky+ customer.

Please Note: I am not a Sky employee. I am a fellow subscriber. Please do not PM me as they will not be responded to. Posting publicly to a thread increases the usefulness for all.
Neil-C
Topic Author
This message was authored by Neil-C This message was authored by: Neil-C

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

@mikealanr I'm with Virgin media on the gigabit package. Although not for long as we're moving to a narrowboat so will be using starlink. It's little things like if I'm being indecisive and I'm looking at a few different sections or going from live tv to the guide it seems to slow down. It's noticeable but not fatal, if that makes sense. The router is about 1M away and doing a speed test from that location I'm getting just over 800Mbps. 

The other main letdown is compared to the latest AppleTV 4Kon the same TV, the picture isn't quite as good especially on HD content. However this isn't a surprise as the picture in general and the up scaling the AppleTV is some of the best I've seen anywhere. 

I am surprised they haven't gone down the route of offering the option of using the AppleTV functionality allowing pay TV providers to supply their service via Apple as Comcast in the US do and from what I hear it's pretty bloody good although no first hand experience of it. 

This message was authored by Chrisee This message was authored by: Chrisee

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Neil-C thank you for a thoughtful post

First point is you are right that the Stream puck is essentially a thin client with most processing being carried out on remote servers. It. Is therefore essential that the puck has both sufficent bandwidth (around 30Mb/s if you want to watch in UHD) and just as important a feed free from interference which can cause packet loss. Symptoms like laggy OS, buffering etc indicate that you may want to look into improving the connection for your puck. However as always there is in evitable lag on thin client systems bedore the server can respond this is particukarly noticeable when using trick play. 

 

App loading speed is something Sky are working in but they have limited control over third party apps like iPlayer which in my experience is one of the worst offenders and I know from atrending briefings that this is an area they have not given up on.

 

Your crticism of voice search is unusual I find it both fast and efficent and searches within most app libraries as well as Sky's own. However like all systems it does require speaking clearly and holding the remote in front of your face and getting used to its inevitable foibles. 

Picture quality is another unusual criticsm. Hopefully you have set up your TV's input correctly as like most modern streaming systems many picture processing systems on modern TVs can worsen the picture often doing the opposite of what is intended e.g. motion improvement causing juddering, sharpness ausing ege effects so as a start try setting your TV to a setting like Movie preset or similar with minimal processing applied. Apple TV is often referred to, especially by one poster who appears repeatedly  with multiple ids, but you are comparing a unit that costs £150 with one costing a few pounds so hardly a fair comparison especially around upscaling..

Power saving is unfortunately a regulatory requirement for modern set top boxes and we and Sky arexstuck with that.

=========================================================
65inch Sky Glass, 3 Sky Streaming Pucks, Sky Ultrafast + and Sky SR213(white Wifi Max hub) main Wifi from 3 TP-Link Deco M4 units in access point mode
This message was authored by Exiled-in-HH This message was authored by: Exiled-in-HH

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

@Neil-C Apple TV boxes are superior streaming devices BUT they can't be used as Sky Pucks ... you can access most of Sky's broadcast channels using a Apple TV box using the Sky GO app and access them using the TV  Launcher app on the Apple TV box😉

 

Will you be moving to NOWTV when you move to your narrow boat?

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This message was authored by TimmyBGood This message was authored by: TimmyBGood

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Neil-C wrote:

 

I am surprised they haven't gone down the route of offering the option of using the AppleTV functionality allowing pay TV providers to supply their service via Apple as Comcast in the US do and from what I hear it's pretty bloody good although no first hand experience of it. 


Effectively they do, with Sky Go   Comcast on Apple in the US is the Xfinity app, not native Xfinity.

* * * * * * *

Sky Glass 55" (on ethernet) & two Stream Pucks (one ethernet / one WiFi)
BT Halo 3+ Ultrafast FTTP (500Mbs), BT Smart Hub 2
This message was authored by xenon81 This message was authored by: xenon81

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….


@Nigelb1972 wrote:

5) E.U. regulations re power savings. It doesn't take a lot of effort to jiggle the remote. I've done it twice during the football tonight and I imagine that I'll have to do it again soon .. thank christ I get an on screen prompt.

 

5) they can't do this as it's an E.U. directive that has been as adopted by the UK.

 


The EU regulation just requires devices to go into standby after a "reasonable" period. There is no exact time period set, for many TVs it is 4 hours and this can be changed or disabled by the user.

This message was authored by Exiled-in-HH This message was authored by: Exiled-in-HH

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Turn energy saving off completely would be against Sky's strong and commendable Green agenda😉

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This message was authored by Chrisee This message was authored by: Chrisee

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Neil-C you mention moving to a narrow boat which could present issues as Sky require the pucks to only be used at the account holders residential address which definitely excludes use in a touring caravan or motor home but could include a houseboat assuming it had a street address. This leads me to think Stream is not paricularly suited to your use case and perhaps an Apple TV with a Now TV sub be a better fit? You can cancel without charge in thecfirst 31 days.

 

Regarding internet speeds it is perfectly possible to have gigabit speeds at the router but still have poor wifi signal at the puck if using WiFi.

=========================================================
65inch Sky Glass, 3 Sky Streaming Pucks, Sky Ultrafast + and Sky SR213(white Wifi Max hub) main Wifi from 3 TP-Link Deco M4 units in access point mode
Neil-C
Topic Author
This message was authored by Neil-C This message was authored by: Neil-C

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

@Exiled-in-HH We will likely stick with Sky as we will be able to use a family address for the official residential location with Starlink for the broadband, I've been assured by sky tech support that this will work... So, we will see! hahaha. If it all goes to pot we can use Now, it's just a bummer it doesn't have 4K, and all the channels. 

Neil-C
Topic Author
This message was authored by Neil-C This message was authored by: Neil-C

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

I know wiggling the remote isn't a massive thing but surely the timeout could be made content aware, so, if you're watching a spoting event or a film, it would give you a longer timeout than if you're watching a soap or quiz show etc. 

This message was authored by MarkGoldsmith This message was authored by: MarkGoldsmith

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Neil-C wrote:

I know wiggling the remote isn't a massive thing but surely the timeout could be made content aware, so, if you're watching a spoting event or a film, it would give you a longer timeout than if you're watching a soap or quiz show etc. 


It should do, If left idle on a screen or paused its 10 minutes, if you have something being actively watched its should be a couple of hours before the "pick up the remote or press a button" banner gets displayed.

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This message was authored by Exiled-in-HH This message was authored by: Exiled-in-HH

Re: First 5 days, some thoughts….

If you are watching the TV there should be no issue responding to the on screen prompt🤔

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