Sky Access to Openreach FTTP infrastructure?

[THX1138]

Hello All

The saga continues:

Is there a definitive online database that will indicate whether Openreach has released its FTTP Fibre infrastructure to Sky, allowing Sky to be able to sell its Ultrafast products, based on a specific property/landline number?

There is a possibility that the Sky Ultrafast availability checker database may be incorrect for my property and phoneline.

Many thanks

[cookiemonsteruk]

@THX1138 

This is as definitive database the public has access to

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

But i think you've posted it already

[THX1138]

Many thanks   @cookiemonsteruk   Yes, I have been to this database.

One interesting thing I have discovered this evening: When I was on Sky ADSL, the phone line used for the Sky ADSL was a BT line. (this was normal in the old days to have your Broadband with one company and your Phone line with another.) When I upgraded to Sky FTTC Superfast, part of the terms & conditions was that Sky must take over the BT line, which they did.

When the phone line was with BT, the online SamKnows database indicated that this line could be upgraded to ‘BT FTTP’. After the line was taken over by Sky, SamKnows indicates it can now only be upgraded to ‘Sky Broadband’ FTTC - strange…

This got me thinking that when the line was with BT, the Openreach FTTP network was open and available to me as a BT customer. As soon as the line was taken over by Sky, the FTTP door was closed, as I was no longer a BT customer.

If this is the case, it is looking more and more likely that Openreach/BT may have never released its FTTP network to Sky in my area, even though the Sky availability checker says it can provide me with FTTP. Maybe the Sky availability checker has been given incorrect data from Openreach, thus giving me and Sky a false positive result.

My issue has now been escalated to a Sky Specialist Advisor to dig deep into the true reason for my upgrading issue. I have also sent an inquiry to Openreach to confirm ‘yes or no’ if they have released their FTTP to Sky in my area.

This whole thing is feeling more and more like an episode of Poirot !!

I’ll hopefully hear something back next week.

[simon194]

---

@THX1138 wrote:

Many thanks   @cookiemonsteruk   Yes, I have been to this database.

One interesting thing I have discovered this evening: When I was on Sky ADSL, the phone line used for the Sky ADSL was a BT line. (this was normal in the old days to have your Broadband with one company and your Phone line with another.) When I upgraded to Sky FTTC Superfast, part of the terms & conditions was that Sky must take over the BT line, which they did.

When the phone line was with BT, the online SamKnows database indicated that this line could be upgraded to ‘BT FTTP’. After the line was taken over by Sky, SamKnows indicates it can now only be upgraded to ‘Sky Broadband’ FTTC - strange…

This got me thinking that when the line was with BT, the Openreach FTTP network was open and available to me as a BT customer. As soon as the line was taken over by Sky, the FTTP door was closed, as I was no longer a BT customer.

If this is the case, it is looking more and more likely that Openreach/BT may have never released its FTTP network to Sky in my area, even though the Sky availability checker says it can provide me with FTTP. Maybe the Sky availability checker has been given incorrect data from Openreach, thus giving me and Sky a false positive result.

My issue has now been escalated to a Sky Specialist Advisor to dig deep into the true reason for my upgrading issue. I have also sent an inquiry to Openreach to confirm ‘yes or no’ if they have released their FTTP to Sky in my area.

This whole thing is feeling more and more like an episode of Poirot !!

I’ll hopefully hear something back next week.

---

Samknows is notorious for being out of date these days.

Openreach are not allowed by Ofcom to withold services to any ISP when they are available so that won't be the problem. It could be a capacity issue between the OLT frame and Sky's kit at the exchange.

[THX1138]

Many thanks  @simon194  There may be someting in what your saying.

I was sure that Openreach/BT retain exclusivity over newly installed Fibre for a period of time, before later releasing availability to non-BT providers e.g., Sky, TalkTalk…

When Openreach first installed the Fibre in our area, only BT were able to offer FTTP within weeks of it having been installed. Other providers in our area were not offering FTTP until about 8 months later. For my crazy situation with Sky, it is fundamental to establish if this ‘exclusivity’ hold by Openreach/BT does “really” happen – or is it an urban myth?

The Sky infrastructure capacity idea is something to think about, but if I take my example of the phone line this becomes a bit weird:

• Landline Phone Number (01234 123 456) – when it was with BT - FTTP was available to me
• Landline Phone Number (01234 123 456) – now with Sky, NO FTTP available to me

This feels to me that Openreach/BT are still holding a monopoly over which companies can provide FTTP in my area, by giving BT customers preferential treatment over Sky customers.

Hopefully I’ll find out more on Monday when my Sky case representative comes back to me with their findings.

Cheers

[THX1138]

Many thanks    @simon194   You raise some interesting points (Yes, I was also not too sure of SamKnows accuracy)

I was sure that Openreach/BT retain exclusivity over newly installed Fibre for a period of time, before later releasing availability to non-BT providers e.g., Sky, TalkTalk…

When Openreach first installed the Fibre in our area, it was only BT who were able to offer FTTP to me. Other providers in our area were not offering FTTP until about 8 months later. For my crazy situation with Sky, it is fundamental to establish if this ‘exclusivity’ hold by Openreach/BT does “really” happen – or is it an urban myth?

The Sky infrastructure capacity idea is something to think about, but if I take my example of the phone line this becomes a bit weird:

• Landline phone number (XXXX XXX XXX) – when this phone line & number was with BT - FTTP was available to me
• Exactly the same landline number and copper line, now taken over by Sky - NO FTTP available to me

This feels to me that Openreach/BT are still holding a monopoly over which companies can provide FTTP in my area, by giving BT customers preferential treatment over Sky customers.

Hopefully I’ll find out more on Monday when my Sky case representative comes back to me with their findings.

Cheers

[THX1138]

Sorry forgot to included what is coming back from the Openreach site when I enter the phone line number that is now with Sky:

[cookiemonsteruk]

@THX1138 

The site maintains a record of all current BT phonelines and those that have been. For example a new build whose landline provider has always been a sky number will not appear but the address will.

If there is a database error then the isp would need to complete an ORDI (Open Reach Data Integrity) form

[Highlinder]

@THX1138I found when FTTP was installed in my area that could get it without issue with BT, but did take around 6-8 weeks for it to be available to order via Sky in having to wait for their database to be updated. This was the only issue I had holding up on me being able to order FTTP.

[THX1138]

@cookiemonsteruk 

This looks to be mabie moving us somewhere.

As you say the site ‘should’ be remembering that the phoneline and number began its life as a BT phoneline and number, before it was taken over by Sky earlier this year – however, it is not.

If I use my home address, rather than the Sky phone number, the Openreach site says that I can get FTTP. So as far as the physical house is concerned, we are good to go. But put in the Sky landline number and we are going nowhere.

@cookiemonsteruk   I’m very interested to know more about the ORDI (Open Reach Data Integrity) form. Can you provide more details on this? This may be the magic bullet that Sky needs to use to fix my issue.

Cheers mate

[cookiemonsteruk]

@THX1138 

A crude copy and paste hope it formats

GEN017/14 ORDI (Openreach Data Integrity) Additional
Address Functionality
13/03/2014 For Information
This briefing is for all Communications Providers.
This briefing is to clarify the use of the ORDI (Openreach Data Integrity) Additional Address Functionality.
We need your support in the correct and appropriate use of the Openreach Data Integrity (ORDI)
robotic additional address functionality process.
In the early part of 2013, we introduced the Additional Address Correction functionality via ORDI. This
allows you to notify us of any address corrections required. For example: the service may initially have been
delivered to "PLOT 52, Acme Homes Development". Once in situ the postal address is then confirmed by
Royal Mail as "12 Acacia Drive".
Who should be enabled to make address changes?
Due to the importance of this information, especially as it is used to update your end user's records on the BT
Emergency Services Database, CPs must have their own processes in place to validate within all address
details within their organisations before passing a request to the ORDI robot for the address to be updated.
Registration details for the ORDI Address Correction service can be found in our Fixing Suspect Data
Integrity Issues document.
Once registered and before sending a request to ORDI please ensure that:
You are registered to use the Additional Address functionality as requests received from on registered users will
be rejected
•
• The new address exists in the latest Royal Mail Postal Address File (PAF)
• You own the installation
The email subject line is formatted correctly with the address noted being the address required: Eg.
 Telephone no deleted:Address=33 Victoria Street, Windsor
•
• For LLU assets, please format your email using the Service ID
• No further text within the body of the email is required
If the address is incorrect, the request will be rejected or sent to our manual queue for further investigation.
This facility is provided to update individual addresses and does not support batch requests. If there is a
requirement to update multiple addresses (greater than 10), please email deleted to discuss.
Further information on the use of the ORDI Robot, including the additional address functionality, can be
found in the 'Fixing Suspect Data Integrity Issues' document.
Issued by MG
The contents of this briefing are accurate at the time of writing and are subject to change.
Please discuss any queries or issues in relation to this briefing with your Sales & Relationship Manager or Service contact,
who will be pleased to assist.
Our Customer Information Zone is now available at www.news-openreach.co.uk which will provide you with a central point

[THX1138]

@cookiemonsteruk   Many thanks for this.

Just been reading some of the threads on the BT forum site regards ORDI (Openreach Data Integrity) with a number of discussions beginning to feel eerily similar to what I may be experiencing.

I will raise this with Sky when they call me back on Monday.

Many thanks again for this hopeful fix - fingers crossed and will let you know.

Cheers

[cookiemonsteruk]

@THX1138 

I am reading ordi more as a new build plot number to street number change or street number to house name. So i don't know if its a telephone number issue. Drastic solution ... ask sky for a new landline number it has been a workaround for solving ceased line issues. Anywho keep us posted 👍🤞

[Chrisee]

@THX1138 Sky lines do not work if you run the checker on the number you have to use the address checker instead. Something to do with LLU. 

[THX1138]

@cookiemonsteruk @Chrisee @Highlinder   Many thanks to you all.

Fingers crossed for my discussion with Sky on Monday and will let you know.

Just in case it helps, below are the results I get when entering into the Openreach database:

We have 3 independant phone lines comming into our property. Searching the Openreach database based on each separate phone line, we get the following:

• BT Line 1 = Featured Products, WBC FTTP. FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered
• BT Line 2 = Featured Products, WBC FTTP. FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered
• Sky Line = There is no data available for this number. This could be either because it is not a BT line or it is a new BT number that has just been provided. Most new numbers will appear on the checker 24 hours after BT has installed the line

Searching the Openreach database based on our postal address:

• House Address = Featured Products, WBC FTTP. FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered