Router keeps dropping internet connection daily

[familylife]

So update on this issue, started to get (rude word) with this issue just getting worse. So rung Sky and just said need to get this sorted and the adviser didn't ask me to go over it all again as they saw the account issue. So I was told that I need Ultra which I have told them alot and was told not available so received the Sky hub which has 4 ethernet ports and can cope with 64 devices, as was told I had too many for the two port router, but this is costing me an extra £5 pm (that's another story) so received the unit the next day Saturday. Took all day to setup the 60 devices as had to reconnect them to router, then I found out that if I used the same side and access key as old one they would have auto connected (gutted). So seams to be better the next day had a drop out late Saturday but put that down to updates for router. This seams to have resolved my sky Q and mini box issues (freezing and jumping). BUT I have been told by the wife that there has been Internet drop outs everyday some during the day and some at night, I ant at home currently so I will be contacting sky and seeing why I am having drops still. Don't get me wrong it's ALOT BETTER than it was but they garentee 3mb in every room so looks like I am on to the next stage. Will post once anything changes.

[RichG99]

Not familiar with this forum so my post may not be where I intended, however I want to also add that there is a definite intermittent fault somewhere with the Sky setup (Sky Q + 2 minis), I've had a number of engineers round and upgraded to Ultrafast but I'm 100% convinced the issue occurred pre-ultrafast, I've replaced my router twice with no real effect. My droputs last no more than 30-60 seconds but working from home this can be quite disruptive, Sky Mini boxes can drop out also even though one is 3 meters away from the main box (wood wall and door only between).  I'm reasonably tech minded although a little short on time so haven't done what could be a painfully lenghty fault diagnosis but incoming speed is very good therefore I'm blaming incompatability within the mesh. It's infuriating that sky are not reading these forums and addressing the issue.

[RichG99]

Further update and maybe someone more technical than me can comment , here is a netspot snapshot of my linked devices to the Wifi , whilst I'd expect fluctuations on usage it looks like the wi-fi drop offs are quite clear , unless this is normal ?

[familylife]

Hi Richard, can I ask how you got that graph please as I could do with looking at one for mine

[THX1138]

As stated in the earlier posts, I too am a victim of this VDSL dropping out problem, which is always less than 1 minute in duration.

I’m curious to know what Sky routers people are using and firmware versions, to see if there is any correlation between the drop-outs and the Sky routers being used.

• Sky Q Hub Router ER115 ?
• Sky Broadband Hub Router SR203 ?

Also:

• has anyone tried leaving the phone off the hook to see if the drop-outs decrease?
• Which Openreach cabinet manufacturer are peoples VDSL being provided by – Huawei or ECI
• Do you have Copper or Aluminium wire between your house and the Cabinet? Does your copper line go to a distribution pole?

I have been keeping a log of my drop-outs since March as well as the DS1, DS2 & DS3 router stats and weather conditions - Dry or Wet days.

It may be a red herring, but when the Downstream Connection Speed is lower and the Noise Margin is higher, it tends to be more stable. With a higher downstream connection speed and lower noise margins, drop-outs seem to occur more frequently.

I would also like to know more about the supposed cross-talk issue in the Openreach cabinets that have been mentioned as a possible cause of these drop-outs or a cross connection frame in the exchange, where the copper meets the broadband, or DSLAM rebooting.

My feeling is that there is a more deep-rooted problem that nether Sky or Openreach are really welling to get involved in, unless you have the knowledge of line testers and can prove it to Openreach. At the end of the day if you don't have a TDR and a spectrum analyser (which in effect the aurora Presto) you're blind to what's going on and can’t provide the evidence to Openreach. Instead they both just fob you off…

Hey ho

[RichG99]

hi familylife, its a free app available from the microsoft store, called NetSpot. I'm not sure every cliff-edge

in the measurements represents a dropout of my connection but seems to indicate something not right....

[THX1138]

I’m beginning to wonder if the drop-outs that many of us seem to be newly experiencing, from all parts of the UK, may be down to a couple of assumptions:

• Major increases in internet use during Covid lockdown, increasing crosstalk noise issues
• The DSLAM is trying to achieve its optimum balance between Speed and Stability during this massive increase in internet usage and crosstalk during lockdown with it not coping very well. (especially when the DSLAM takes roughly 10 days to achieve its optimum balance and the continual rebooting of routers not helping matters)

For me personally, my drop-out issues only stated once we went into lockdown – before this my internet stability was rock solid and my speed consistent.

Based on my assumptions, it will be interesting to see if the drop-out issues improve as less people are locked up at home?

[pdqsoft]

Glad it's not just me. We did what several people seem to have done, and switched main router for the newer 4-port box. We have main Sky Q box and 2 mini boxes. To be fair, they are mostly fine, very occasionally one of the mini boxes complains it can't find the main box, buteventually recovers. I finally decided to bite the bullet and bought a new TP-Link router this week. Seemed fine at first, but is now showing the same intermittent dropouts, where internet connection is lost, rather than wifi dropping out. Phone line sounds pretty noisy, but from memory it's never been great. In theory, and engineer is booked to check the circuit (Sky's own test said there is a problem outside our house so we don't need  a visit). I'm not holding my breath though...

[mae-3]

When intermittent issues occur one must ascertain the reason for the drops.

The Sky routers have two important pieces of information that help in isolating the issue, eg: the router stats and more importantly the support recent activity log.

The support recent activity log will show 'VDSL down' messages if it is the line is dropping regularly, and that is a line issue to the cabinet usually causing the issue and only a BT Openreach engineer is able to fix the issue in most cases. The router stats are useful in showing how long the WAN port has been connected and this should be around the same amount of time the router has been online, eg: if it isn't the same then it's likely the line that has an issue.

If the router keeps resetting itself then the time will be reset in the logs and this is usually a power issue, eg: faulty router or supply spikes. It will reset the time also when the firmware is updated and this isn't a fault so keep an eye on the firmware release of the router.

If all the above looks good then the most likely reason for the issue is wireless, and one can confirm this by noting that only wireless connected devices are dropping and the support recent activity log shows no issues.

Wireless is the most difficult to solve as it suffers from interference that there is little you do about unless moving to wireless channels that aren't being used by anybody else locally. And that an issue with Sky equipment because it has a limited number of channels that can be used on the 5Ghz wireless band, eg: only manual ones from 36-52 but in fact, there are many other channels available and the best course of action is changing the wireless router/mesh to a none Sky one.

With this thread, it's difficult for the regulars to help isolate an issue that is usually unique to a subscriber but keep posting here for these issues but also start a new thread unique to yourself as well.

As for Sky saying you have too many devices connected to the wireless router, well, that's just nonsense in most cases...

[THX1138]

Without a doubt all my [ syslog: [1431560.722000] Line 0: VDSL2 link down ]  1 minute dropouts are more frequent when the Noise Margin is low and the Connection Speed is high.

Once the Connection Speed drops down over a few day and the Noise Margin goes higher, the dropouts tend to stop.

Both examples above make perfect sense as it’s all about Speed vs Stability.

@mae-3  Does ‘rebooting’ your router have any impact on your DLM Profile or are the Openreach Caution Counters, only effected by what goes on at the Openreach end of the system and not at your modem/router end? Does the modem/router play any part in DLM Profiling or is the modem/router simply a dumb piece of hardware that is not included in the DLM Profiling – i.e. DLM profiling is only interested in the copper line between your NTE and the FTTC Cabinet.

Cheers

[mae-3]

@THX1138 

The modem in the router gets profiled as well in DLM. Rebooting once won't cause an issue but over 3 times a day will likely have an impact on speed, latency (interleaving) and raise the noise margin for improved stability and drop the speed in a bad way.

I've found that an occasional reboot is actually good because it's scheduled downtime and not unscheduled and may slightly change the noise margin, change the speed slightly but more importantly improve stability with G.fast, during seasonal variations during the year. And it would do the same for VDSL2, eg: a reboot once a month is about right but no more than 1 every 10 days at an absolute maximum.

I think what those here are getting drops every day it is unacceptable but Sky's threshold of 10 drops in a day for a clear fault is really poor service.

Here I've had zero drops in 2 and a half years in an unscheduled manner but guess I'm lucky...

[Reghar]

A great little app I 100% recommend to everyone is NetAnalyser. 

https://techet.net/netanalyser/

Available free on iOS and Android.

This let me pinpoint my sky issues on an AP by AP basis.

Some points to consider.

Power adapters are unreliable. Avoid where possible. The adapters themselves are decent tech, but older houses especially are not optimum for them to be used. Old cabling etc etc.

Replace wifi with wired where possible especially silver q/mini boxes. Changed my daughters silver from mesh to wired last night had a 10% wifi speed increase instantly and her drop outs stopped. This was probably because there were two APs in the same room router/silver box. Terrible install by engineers. Devices had no clue what AP to link to and were constantly switching causing ip issues.

Managed switches are just simply awful when used with sky equipment use unmanaged where possible.

Get rid of you sky router and get your own 3rd party mesh/wired network in place. An expensive option but I have only drop outs when sky try to update their equipment(which is usually months apart) My router thinks its a ddos attack and shuts down. Otherwise External 75 down 18 up for months seamlessly. Internal wifi6 @320mbs on 5ghz 120mbs on 2.4ghz. Wired sits, around 300 to 750mbs device dependant.

Sky minis and silver are awful APs. Shut their wifi off on them and install your own APs. Wire the sky equipment in.

Like many I am stuck with either BT or Sky due to locale atm,  If you live near Durham youfibre is rolling out so 3rd option may be coming soon.

BT tech is old UK wide. Aluminium/steel/copper cable, overhead lines and seriously old boxes. They do update slowly but only where there is increased demand and LOTS of complaints. If your rural you are way down that list. Fibre is not generally true fibre. You are fibre in your house once it leaves the house it depends on the bt infrastructure in your area. 

Large properties need wired cabling. Wifi has limits. I have 3 storey 19th century villa with thick walls. Needed three wifi6 routers and one triband AP to cover all areas.

I have been fighting the same fight as many on this thread for 5 years.

I have spent upwards of £1200 to make my Internet decent and none of that was down to sky's help. BT engineers/experts being honest on callouts and making recommendations  helped me more.

It is possible with cash and tenacity. Been a sky customer for 20 years and sick to death of the lack of service. Don't expect them to fix it, you can do it but only if you take it on yourself.

Good luck!

[THX1138]

Cheers @mae-3 

Yesterday, I changed over from the Sky Router ER115, to the Sky Router SR203.

It is going to be interesting to monitor any speed/stability behavioural changes with the new SR203, compared to ER115. So far so good with the new SR203, having one reboot but that was a firmware update so that doesn’t count. But so far, I've had no 1 minute dropouts.

If the new SR203 Router does improve things - as the modem in the router gets profiled as well in DLM, and the dropouts do greatly reduce or stop altogether, then Sky may have to stomach upgrading users of the older routers to the SR203 at Sky’s cost and not make them purchase Sky Boost to get it.

Will keep you posted on the SR203's performace against these dreded 1 minute dropouts.

Cheers

[Reghar]

One thing I missed out.

If you are using a 3rd party router and getting drop outs. Plug in the sky router. Let it sync/update then plug in your own again. 

Might just be how it works on my network router security but stops sky trying to push updates causing my router to protect itself.

[mae-3]

@Reghar 

Once you have your own router it should not be taking any notice of a Sky firmware update. If your router is reporting anything unusual in the logs then a post of these to the forum may be useful in helping to understand the issue, and avoiding it by changing any setting as necessary in the router interface?