Lip Sync issues - Sky Stream

[55552555]

Hi, I followed the advice here and all seemed fine,   but the last two episodes of Strike have been unwatchable on Sky  I had to switch to the Built-in iPlayer on the TV  it was perfect on there.  All other programs seem fine.  at the moment (Strange) 

[Chris4Stream]

Lip Sync issues are complex, and I really do feel for those experiencing them, they do affect many platforms not just Sky Stream.

But I feel Sky needs to do far more around manging customer satisfaction around this issue.

Why? Because for many, including myself, SKY UK is seen as a premium TV service, if you can afford it, you have SKY, but SKY also sports and SKY cinema, but in return you expect the best.

This is where I feel SKY are starting to fall down, there is clearly a problem, and from a technical perspective its well know.

I expect when the signal leaves the SKY Stream box the Picture and Sound will be in sync, the problem people (and SKY) are facing is what happens next...

For example, people that use soundbars and ARC or eARC  , (I'm NOT excusing the issue, but trying to explain the complexity), the image and sound go the TV, the TV processes the image and sound based on the settings, which could mean anything, so a TV with a high amount of picture processing could delay the image by a few milliseconds, yet send the sound out to the sound bar without delay, this will cause a problem...

But it's only the start....

The soundbar itself could cause further delays while processing the sound, so causing the sound the fall even move behind the image.

HDMI right now does not send any feedback to the SKY Stream Box from the TV or the Soundbar so the SKY Box doesn't know how much time each device needs to process the image or sound.

This to be honest in a inherent problem with the current HDMI standard.

However I think we all agree SKY Stream is a premium product so it needs a solution.

I think right now there is not one, that is the problem....

However, what may help some people, but NOT all is f SKY could do is publish rsome ecommend settings for equipment that is problematic, that is all I can suggest.

I'm sure many people will criticise this post, and poop on that I have said, that's fine, I'm not an expert so cut me some slack, all I'm trying to do is explain why, it my be hard for SKY to fix, but they do NEED to fix...

[Chris4Stream]

My post has typos, but I cant edit??????

[Skull+Treaty]

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@Chris4Stream wrote:

My post has typos, but I cant edit??????

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@Chris4Stream 

Yeah, need to be level 4 (I think) before being able to edit posts. 

[Chris4Stream]

Thx for explaing, please read around the typos 😁

[Chris4Stream]

I have mid dislexia so I can read and re-read stuff I write but I still don't see all the errors 🙄

[TechMaster]

I hate to say this but I am the annoying smug user who has seen zero lip sync issues with his Stream box, however perhaps I just havent come across the content with the issues. I may just be lucky so far.

But I am happy to do some tests and share my setup if that helps anyone, for those with the issue doses it happen on anything, Live TV, catch up, itvx, iplayer etc, is there a certain scene or episode that always has the issue or does it go away if you rewatch the same scene. 

[Littletaffia]

@Chris4Stream I'm sorry but you are excusing Sky for the lip sync problems for those using soundbars. There is a reason why it's happening and it's nothing to do with using a soundbar of, like myself, an AVR, it's a poor product from Sky with abysmal customer support. You can get products with lip sync alteration like the old SkyQ had and lip sync was pretty stable. I have it on my AVR and on a Pioneer 4K blu ray player, but's only if the audio is running before the video and you can adjust the delay. The problem with Sky is that the video is running ahead of the audio. That is a problem for the digital domain of Sky's software. It's not a problem brought about by using a soundbar or AVR.

The Apple TV+ has no such adjustments, same as the Sky Stream yet lip sync is absolutely perfect. I have no lip sync adjustment on my TV which is six years old yet all the built in apps are spot on even using digital optical to my AVR as it doesn't have eARC and using the old ARC standard brings it's own problems with CEC. Apart from using the TV apps for UHD content on BBC iPlayer all my streaming services are through the Apple TV. The other thing about ATV is that the picture quality is far better than Sky Stream and more stable.

People using soundbars and AVRs are probably in the minority. I see very few replies from those just using their TV's speakers and so Sky is more than happy to ignore the replies in this forum, if ever they do read them.

[Chris4Stream]

@Littletaffia 

I'm not excusing SKY, I have clearer said in my post that is NEEDS to be fixed.

What I was trying to explain was why it might be hard to fix.

[Chris4Stream]

I use to be with Virgin Media, and trust me, if you go to their forum, there is just as many people complaining about lip synic.

Here is what I think is happening and the ONLY way to fix it, which will probably never happen....

The image and sound leaves the SKY or Virgin Media Box in sync, they have gone their job.....

For some users it then goes to a AV receiver (in my case) or a soundbar via the TV....

This is when the problem starts.... each TV display mode or each soundbar surround mode takes different milliseconds to process, so a Stereo sound signal wil maybe process with 1ms delay, no one will notice, but a dolby surround signal my take different times depending on the chip used in the soundbar, so 4, 6, or even 8 ms, who knows, it depends on the Soundbars chip and software.

So what can SKY and Virgin Media do??????

in HDMI 2.1 there is actually a feature that is meant to fix this, but it will never be used.

The problem is not simple to fix, for example allowing  the user to pick a ms delay time in the SKY Menu does not work, because the processing time differs with each Soundbar and each audio format, as I have said, the same soundbar may take 2ms to decode stereo but 6ms to decode Dolby surround.

The only way I can see this being fixed is to have an advanced menu settings where you enter the model of your TV and Sound system.

Then SKY could look at a database of how each TV and Sound system delayed the image and sound signal and adapt the signal from their box to counter the issues, however, different TV picture modes like Sport, or Sounds modes like enhanced surround will all change the timings, and could cause the same problem.

It is sooooooo..... hard to fix, and is a known problem with HDMI

[Jonny16]

@Chris4Stream that would make sense, but why do people seem to only see the issues with Sky? A friend had this same problem with Sky sports, they moved to now tv and the problem went.

Also seen lots of people saying that when they use better devices like Apple TV, fire sticks etc, then they don't have the issues when watching sky.

The problem has to be with the crappy sky pucks and their hardware.

[Chris4Stream]

@Jonny16 

Thx

Can I just say, I'm not defending SKY, but I'm trying to explain the reason why it has not been fixed yet.

If you look at these forum, the lipsyc issue is pretty up there, even more than playlists, I think if SKY could fix this quickly they would have.

If you do a Google for HDMI lip sync issues it is very wide spread, not just SKY, it is a fundamental issue with HDMI.

Like I said, go on Virgin Media forums and you will see the same issues.

So when people say they don't get it with Apple + do they mean the app or the box?

I think some users are confusing Apps and Boxes, its such a complex issue.

If a user has a SKY Stream Box AND a Apple TV box and they swap the boxes with the same Soundbar they sould see the same issues.#,

BUT only when using the same video modes and sound modes, that the issue....

It me explain, it's so complicated....

Some TV boxes will put out a sound channel, even surround as PCM format, now when the Soundbar gets that it does not digital decoding, so no Ms delay.... so it might look as it works fine, BUT, its not apples for apples, that the point.

The audio format apple TV box send to a soundbar might take 2ms to decode, and the audio format a Sky box sends to the Soundbar might take 10ms to decode, OR...... the other way around depending on the CHIP and software in the Soundbar.

I bet you there are just as many people on Apple TV forums complaining about lipsync, it is a major problem with HDMI and HDMI know.

I believe the official HDMI fix is two way communication, so the sound system for each audio format reports back to the sending device it's delay time for processing that particual audio format, for example, I take 5ms for process Stereo, but I take 25ms to process Dolby surround, so the sending device then delays the image and audio by the correct amount.

[JohnKenny1966]

Had this since Thursday nothing but problems everyday, watching live TV is impossible. 

[Chris4Stream]

It's a real issue, SKY need to address it

[Jonny16]

@Chris4Stream there's been many posts on here and other forums where people have had lip sync issues with Sky stream using their pucks.

They have then left and subscribed to Sky via the likes of now tv and run the now tv app on Firestick and Apple TV etc, they no longer have the lip sync issues.

They use the same external audio equipment and same HDMI cable, the only difference being they no longer use the Sky puck and stream, but use a Firestick/Apple TV and watch Sky via Now tv.