Broadband packet loss/loss of Internet but connection remains up (mostly)

[shrewdLogarithm]

Gigafast (150) connection (VDSL?) using an SR204 - we've had issues with "loss of Internet" over the last 2-3 weeks and it's getting worse...

Symptoms: very slow or failed attempts to load webpages/steam/play games

Sometimes you'll get 404s or "You have no Internet" - sometimes pages take 20s to load  - sometimes streaming pases/stutters/drops-quality - sometimes online games freeze for a few seconds and then 'catch up' or just disconnect

Looking at Router logs (which I have backed-up) the connection appears to remain up through most of this - occasionally it will drop - in one case the router just randomly reset itself - but it usually clears-up without connection drops/router resets

I setup a "Ping Tracker" on Sky/Google DNS servers and it shows periods of a few minutes to a few hours of drop-outs/packet loss - this affects wired and wireless devices and you cannot ping from the Router Menu when it's happening so it's either a failing router or something outside the property?

We had a similar issues 2 years ago but that ALWAYS ended with the connection dropping and was fixed with a replacement router (after an engineer visit) - I mention this only because a shared sympton are literally THOUSANDS of "Rate Change" messages being generated sometimes (in one case over 1600 messages in 1 second!!)

Anything I can do to pinpoint this a bit better and would switching to Ultra/Fibre/ONT connectivity make our connection more reliable or am I stuck with this issue as it's outside the property?

[TimmyBGood]

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@shrewdLogarithm wrote:

Gigafast (150) connection (VDSL?) using an SR204

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G.fast rather than 'gigafast' (which is 900/100 FTTP).

Unfortunately G.fast runs over copper into the address and so is potentially susceptible to the same issues as FTTC.  You can always try to get Sky to book an Openreach visit.

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@shrewdLogarithm wrote:

 would switching to Ultra/Fibre/ONT connectivity make our connection more reliable

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Almost certainly, if FTTP is available at the address

[shrewdLogarithm]

FTTP is definately available as neighbours already have it and people keep knocking on my door trying to sell me it!

I don't really need more speed - I'd just like the thing to work properly and I guess cutting-out the copper entirely is one way of reducing issues

Am I right in thinking the 'Rate Change' stuff is entirely down to the last leg copper connection??

[jamesn123]

@shrewdLogarithm 

The rate change is the copper part of the line suffering and causing line rate changes, usually a sign of a fault. If you have FTTP available to you then I'd strongly suggest switching to it as it'll be more stable. 

[shrewdLogarithm]

The irony here is I must have one of the shortest copper connections possible - I have a tape-measure which would reach from my router to the green cabinet - I'd have to open the window and if I do that I can hear the power supplies in the cabinet it's THAT close ;0

Am I also right in assuming that FTTP means a different router (SR203?) - that would also rule-out the router at the same time (I do think it's the router but I cannot really prove it)

[jamesn123]

@shrewdLogarithm 

Correct, new line and new router if you dont already have the SR203

[shrewdLogarithm]

Just had a chat with Sky and they can't currently offer me FTTP (150 is the max available) which means if I want to do that I'll have to jump to BT Broadband (who are hoarding the capacity I guess??)

One other thing I could try is replacing the SKY Router - I understand this isn't as complex as it used to be (extracting passwords and other nonsense) -  is there a guide/list of suitable routers and how to make them work - has anyone done this and had good results???

Ideally some QOS and parental metering/control over the network would be nice too - the Sky Router is nothing if not basic.

[jamesn123]

@shrewdLogarithm 

Personally I like the Asus lineup, I use the Asus RT-AX88u. 

@cookiemonsteruk Tends to post a comprehensive list that they've built up. (Are Asus paying you commission yet? 🤣)

[cookiemonsteruk]

@jamesn123 

"Tends to post a comprehensive list that they've built up. (Are Asus paying you commission yet?"

You would think so. 😁

[shrewdLogarithm]

Thanks for that - and WOW that's a pricey router (and yes, I know there are way more expensive ones!!)

I think I might just grab the cheaper TP for my own testing but a friend is looking for a router which will help me 'block' her kids from endless Internetting and that ASUS seems to offer those capabilities and so that's useful to know

Thanks!

[pip75]

I also get the 1000's of line rate changes, support said my line was within parameters.   Yes, i can get 150Mbs but the packet loss if frequent and retransmission is very high. 

Interested to see what retransmission rates you get when running the speed test below. 

https://speed.measurementlab.net/

[shrewdLogarithm]

I ran the retransmission test and got this

Test Server Dublin, IE   Download 115.73 Mb/s   Upload 28.92 Mb/s   Latency 25 ms   Retransmission 2.52%

[shrewdLogarithm]

In other news, a BT engineer called today as he'd been called-out to check my line 

I wasn't home but he happily walked me through everything he was doing by phone (my partner was home but isn't interested in technology so she concentrated mostly on stopping our dogs eating him!)

He was super-helpful - apparently I have something called 'SOGFAST' - he reckons the fault is either in the router or in Sky's network beyond the BT stuff - he was also confused why Sky wasn't offering me FTTP as there's plenty of capacity on the pole.

He even noticed our master socket was damaged (cover clip broken) so he replaced that as well as replacing something called a 'split' in the cabinet and he switched my connection to a different card (which is apparently their way of narrowing hardware faults)

He even explained the biggest mystery - I'd noticed our cabinet was a bit 'wonky' a few months earlier and it transpires someone drove a van into it (quite slowly) which surprised me because I have a car parked less than 1m away from it and - erm - never saw or heard a thing and thankfully he appears not to have hit that (I have no idea how he hit the cabinet either but drink does things to people I guess)

[Chrisee]

@shrewdLogarithm I am somewhat late to answering this thread but I would offer the two following points

1) the delay in loading web pages may be caused by an issue with Sky's DNS servers. There is a known issue where the server you can connect to has an issue with DNS requests so you get delays and the psge not found issue. There units get fixed but rather than waiting for Sky to fix them you can often force a switch to another unit by powering down the router waiting a few minutes after which time you are likely to get a different public IP address and a decent DNS service. The other work round is to set your main devices to use a different DNS server I use Google's which are easy to remember being 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

2) I suspect the reason why Sky wont accept an order for FTTP is that you are currently still in a fixed 18 month contract for the G.Fast service. Sky amortise Openreach's intial set up cost for each connection within the payments over that period. You can switch to a different ISP during thst period but you will pay Sky's cancellation charges. The issue isnt technical its financial

[shrewdLogarithm]

We're out-of-contract with Sky at this point so that's not a factor...

The DNS thing is possibly true because rebooting the router (physically with the plug) often works wonders but...

Many people seem to believe it's impossible to avoid your ISPs DNS servers completely - UK Government rules require ISPs to do a certain amount of monitoring and blocking and to enable that ISPs run all traffic through their own systems BEFORE it reaches your chosen DNS anyway - so if it's slow/down - you'll get nothing

This is thought to be why using some VPNs don't work as you'd expect in the UK also - this is DEFINATELY true of most mobile broadband as I use tunnels/VPNs to access some stuff for work and often have to jump several hoops just to get those operating...!

Lastly, I think I've sourced a Sky compatible router (VR2100) to borrow and test - it will be worth seeing if it solves the issue whether or not I decide to switch to FTTP...