Using iPhone 14 Hotspot to connect Sky+ HD Box to internet.

[TimmyBGood]

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@wrb wrote:

Unfortunately, there is no way on the iPhone to change the security encryption.  

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I'd be very surprised if that were the case, because so much existing hardware cannot (and will never) use WPA3.

I'd suggest trying the 'Maximize Compatibility' toggle.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@wrb wrote:

Thanks TattedPupper and Timmy - much appreciated.

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You might be able to use something like a WiFi dongle that supports both WPA2 and WPA3 and insert in into the Sky Q box.

Example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ZIS0D2O

I don't know if this would work, but it's definitely worth checking out. 

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That won't work: such a 'dongle' has to be supported by the host device OS.

[Anonymous]

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@TimmyBGood wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@wrb wrote:

Thanks TattedPupper and Timmy - much appreciated.

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You might be able to use something like a WiFi dongle that supports both WPA2 and WPA3 and insert in into the Sky Q box.

Example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ZIS0D2O

I don't know if this would work, but it's definitely worth checking out. 

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That won't work: such a 'dongle' has to be supported by the host device OS.

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@TimmyBGood, like I said to @wrb, it's worth checking out. Maybe they can go into the likes of Currys PC World and ask a porfessional about it and/or do their own independant research to resolve it. 

As far as I'm aware, the Sky+HD box is just a Linux device with Sky software, so it might work. 

[TimmyBGood]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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As far as I'm aware, the Sky+HD box is just a Linux device with Sky software, so it might work. 

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If it is then it's a highly customised version, not a full distro which can be expected to 'plug and play'.  I've never seen a report of success with any such device: for one thing there would be no way to configure it in the GUI.

[Dfoulkes]

Hey all,

Reading this thread there's allot of finger pointing at apple. Don't get me wrong I'm a Android guy personally however shouldn't the ownership be with sky here ?

WPA3 has been around for a while. 2018 to be precise and as of late 2020 wiFi-Alliance made it mandatory (if you're going to put the WiFi sticker on a appliance).

Good on apple for sticking to the standard, Sky though needs to pull it's finger out and either rollout a software update or replace devices.

Right now on my network I have to have support for wpa2 and 3, the only reason I need two standards is to support the hub box.

[Mark39]

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@Dfoulkes wrote:

Sky though needs to pull it's finger out and either rollout a software update or replace devices.

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Unlikely, given that Sky+ is an end of life platform. Not sure a software update alone could make Sky+ boxes compatible with WPA3 anyway.

[Anonymous]

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@Dfoulkes wrote:

Hey all,

Reading this thread there's allot of finger pointing at apple. Don't get me wrong I'm a Android guy personally however shouldn't the ownership be with sky here ?

WPA3 has been around for a while. 2018 to be precise and as of late 2020 wiFi-Alliance made it mandatory (if you're going to put the WiFi sticker on a appliance).

Good on apple for sticking to the standard, Sky though needs to pull it's finger out and either rollout a software update or replace devices.

Right now on my network I have to have support for wpa2 and 3, the only reason I need two standards is to support the hub box.

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Apple just want users to use other Apple devices. If Apple actually cared like Android do, Apple products would have WPA2 and WPA3 compatibility like Androids do. 

While WPA3 has been available since 2018, the first Sky+HD device was in 2006 and the first Sky Q box was in 2016. You're asking to put WPA3 on a 7 year old product.

The only products that are strict with WPA3 is Apple products. All others use WPA2 or have WPA2/WPA3 compatibility. 

And while one can blame Sky for not using WPA3, we can complain to BT who also do not use WPA3. And older Freeview boxes don't either. Even Virgin Media UK and Virgin Media Ireland TV boxes don't use WPA3. 

Apple should have been smart and allowed both WPA2 and WPA3. 

It's like if iPhones only allowed users to use the 5G mobile networks. 5G is mostly only available in major cities and it's still being rolled out. It'd be basically useless when there's no 5G connection. There would be uproar. It's the same principle when Apple solely use WPA3. 

[Dfoulkes]

True Apple do try very hard to vendor lock thier users. Although in my 15 years in industry that trait is not unique to them. Besides the point though, one other thing to be wary of and way having both WPA2 and WPA3 is a bad idea:

The reason why Wifi Alliance is pushing for WPA3 was back in 2020 a vunerabilty was detected in WPA2 commonly reffered to as the KR00K attack  (CVE-2019-15126) : https://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/ESET_Kr00k.pdf which exposed the encryption of WFA2 tobe vunerable to attack.

Apple rolled out paatches for their devices in: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210721

If you wanted to, you could rollback prior to IOS 13.2 although I wouldn't recommened it. 

As others have said on this forumn if Sky can't patch the existing software due to support of the hardware then maybe after 7 years its time for a revision.

[rscott]

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@Dfoulkes wrote:

True Apple do try very hard to vendor lock thier users. Although in my 15 years in industry that trait is not unique to them. Besides the point though, one other thing to be wary of and way having both WPA2 and WPA3 is a bad idea:

The reason why Wifi Alliance is pushing for WPA3 was back in 2020 a vunerabilty was detected in WPA2 commonly reffered to as the KR00K attack  (CVE-2019-15126) : https://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/ESET_Kr00k.pdf which exposed the encryption of WFA2 tobe vunerable to attack.

Apple rolled out paatches for their devices in: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210721

If you wanted to, you could rollback prior to IOS 13.2 although I wouldn't recommened it. 

As others have said on this forumn if Sky can't patch the existing software due to support of the hardware then maybe after 7 years its time for a revision.

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They won't do anything to add WPA3 support to Sky+HD boxes for the simple reason they stopped manufacturing them in 2016 and  they're now a legacy device which will only receive firmware updates in exceptional cases (the last one was to fix a very odd daylight savings time bug).

Given that none of the major ISPs support WPA3 on their routers yet, there's little or no point Sky adding support for it to their current satellite receiver (the Q boxes).

Believe it is supported by Stream/Glass as that's Wifi6 certified.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Mark39 wrote:

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@Dfoulkes wrote:

Sky though needs to pull it's finger out and either rollout a software update or replace devices.

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Unlikely, given that Sky+ is an end of life platform. Not sure a software update alone could make Sky+ boxes compatible with WPA3 anyway.

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I believe WPA3 itself is software, but WPA3 certification of a specific device requires Protected Management Frames support implemented in hardware.

[wrb]

The plot thickens, Apple vindicated, and the problem solved but with a lingering question………

Sorry for the radio silence - I've been in hospital - and WPA security was not at the forefront of my mind.

That said, one thing that has continued to bug me is that a much older Dell Laptop had no problem connecting to my iPhone 14 Hotspot; whereas, a relatively much younger Sky+ HD Box did not connect to the same Hotspot.

I'm no expert on this, so was learning on the job as it were.

While trying to get the Sky+ HD Box to connect to the Hotspot, the question of 5G vs 2.4G and WPA3 vs WPA2 came up and investigated.

I first learnt that the iPhone 14 uses 5G by default, which is incompatible with the Sky+ HD Box which supports 2.4G.

I then learnt that the iPhone 14 can be switched to 2.4G by way of the Maximum Compatibility slider.  On switching the iPhone 14 to 2.4G, the Sky+ HD Box network search found the iPhone 14 Hotspot (with iPhone set to 5G, the Sky+ HD Box network search did not find the Hotspot).

Unfortunately, on selecting the Hotspot and entering the password, the Sky+ HD Box failed to connect to the Hotspot.

This failure, then raised the question of security protocol.  

It was found that the Sky+ HD Box supports WPA2 and not the latest WPA3, which is understandable due to the age of the Sky+ HD Box.

It was further found that the iPhone 14 supports WPA3 and cannot be configured/switched back to using WPA2.

This incompatibility was thought to be the reason why the Sky+ HD Box could not connect to the iPhone 14 Hotspot.

However, in contrast, a 20 year old Dell Laptop has no issues connecting to the iPhone Hotspot.  This bugged me - because there is absolutely no way the Laptop supports WPA3.

So, on arriving home, I cleared the Laptop network connection to the iPhone 14 Hotspot and changed the name and password of the Hotspot.  I then renewed the network search on the Laptop, which found the ‘new’  Hotspot.

However, before connecting (which had been done on auto-pilot previously)  I looked at the details of the connection and was confused to see WPA2-PSK?  I then entered the password and completed the connection.

So now - I'm really confused??

According to Apple, the iPhone 14 Hotspot is set to WPA3 and cannot be set/configured to use WPA2.

However, I can categorically confirm this is incorrect.  The iPhone 14 supports both WPA3 AND WPA2.

Perhaps Apple are not too inconsiderate after all !!

I suspect that switching on Maximum Compatibility mode on the iPhone 14, not only changes 5G to 2.4G (as widely confirmed) BUT also  changes WPA3 to WPA2 [(ot widely confirmed, if at all).  I have yet to confirm this.

So, given that the iPhone 14 categorically supports 2.4G and WPA2-PSK - both of which are supported on the Sky+ HD Box - why does the Sky+ HD Box fail to connect to the iPhone 14 Hotspot?

I tried again to connect the Sky+ HD Box to the iPhone 14 Hotspot, with the new name and password.

The Sky+ HD Box network search found the iPhone 14 Hotspot.  I selected the Hotspot from the available network list and entered the password.  But once again, the connection failed !?!?!?

I don't know why, but I pondered if manually entering the Hotspot's name as opposed to selecting from the list of available networks found in the search, would make any difference.

On the Sky+ HD Box I selected manual entry … entered the network name of the iPhone 14 Hotspot, security was already defaulted to WPA2-PSK, entered the password - and to my complete surprise, the Sky+ HD Box connected to the iPhone 14 Hotspot.  I then confirmed the connection was good by downloading a catch-up programme.

I have tried to connect the Sky+ HD Box to the iPhone 14 Hotspot 5 times via selecting from the list of available networks found in the Sky+ HD Box network search and 5 times via manually entering the Hotspot’s network name.

Every time I try via the search, the connection failed.  Every time I try via manually entering the Hotspot name, the connection is successful.

I have absolutely no idea why the difference?  

For information, and purely academically, perhaps one of you Sky Gurus can shed some light on the difference between connecting via search and manually entering network name?

And so .... apart from the difference between search vs manual - the problem is solved.  I have successfully connected an aged Sky+ HD Box to the latest iPhone 14 😀

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread - you all taught me a lot.

[TimmyBGood]

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@wrb wrote:

While trying to get the Sky+ HD Box to connect to the Hotspot, the question of 5G vs 2.4G and WPA3 vs WPA2 came up and investigated.

Just as a side-note, that's 5 Ghz vs 2.4 Ghz.  Using 'G' as a notation risks becomes confused with 5G / 4G / 3G as in 'Generation' of cellular data transfer, which is a different thing.

However, in contrast, a 20 year old Dell Laptop has no issues connecting to the iPhone Hotspot.  This bugged me - because there is absolutely no way the Laptop supports WPA3.

That could be because it's a current version of Windows (W10 from release 2004 or any W11) as an operating system / hardware driver combination which is supporting WPA3 (and the antique operating system of the Sky+ HD not so much ; )

I believe most 80.11ac chipsets could in theory support WPA3 with the appropriate OS/driver combination, although they wouldn't be eligible for WPA3 certification.  Hardware specified to 802.11ax is by definition fully WPA3 compliant.

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[Hubertus]

I think what this really comes down to and I only have just discovered this - The SKY+ HD box while pairing with an accesspoint actually latches on to the underlying BSSID rather than the ESSID. - I found that out because I moved my ESSID to another access point and turned the old one off and Sky would no longer connect - when I moved it back all was fine - I also noticed when I was messing around with it (And the sky box does 5G) that with this ESSID it was listed twice in my list the 2.4GHZ and the 5GHZ.

Everytime you enable the hotspot on an iphone the BSSID actually changes to another random one which I think is rather annoying as I monitor for rogoue access points and it makes it more difficult with random BSSID's jumping up.

Most annoying for me is though that I can not move all my devices to another access point on the fly because Sky for ever reason implemented their WiFi in a way I have never seen anybody do it before although it can be benificial if you can't seperated your 2.4G from 5G.