On demand download failure Sky+ on 2 boxes

[emteepeeess]

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@Shut-ins wrote:

This is my response after asking for compensation, and also as a gesture of goodwill for the 4months of  no actual help from Sky.

"Thank you for getting in touch with Sky looking for compensation for the issue with On Demand/Catch up feature.

I would like to inform you that there was an on going issue with these features which is now resolved by our support teams.

In regards to compensation for Loss of Service, I am sorry to inform you that we won't be able to compensate as On Demand/Catch up is a free feature included on the Sky Box and you do not get charged for it."

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"resolved by our support teams"???? Not here it hasn't.

The second paragraph shows a blatant failure in customer relations.

However, legally, there is a case for breach of contract Lawyers will wriggle of course, but it's arguable that the feature is integral to the subscription service - the test being whether failure to pay the subscription would result in a loss of the service. After all, some of the subscription must be going to providing the service.

To quote a friend, who's a legal specialist with a large global company:

"There are tricky legal arguments here. If the service was integral to the described provision of service at the start of, or on renewal of, the contract, then legal liability is attached even if it is excluded in the contract and/or the failure can be shown to be as a result of corporate negligence"

[TimmyBGood]

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@emteepeeess wrote:

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"There are tricky legal arguments here. If the service was integral to the described provision of service at the start of, or on renewal of, the contract, then legal liability is attached even if it is excluded in the contract and/or the failure can be shown to be as a result of corporate negligence"

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As I indicated above, potentially particularly tricky with Sky+ because there's a whole raft of boxes from that platform which have never gone online, and many models which cannot without additional optional Sky hardware.  Sky Q is supplied with the assumption that internet access is available and 'Signature' was really designed with that in mind (and in my opinion should never have been retrospectively offered for subscription on Sky+)

[Irish-Steve]

So, what do Sky have to say to users that are only having problems with this issue now?

Very little, and nothing helpful., I wasted an hour yesterday trying to talk to Sky support to resolve this problem, which has only started happening in the last week, and it was effectively a waste of time, and I was supposed to get a call back this morning at 09:30, (still waiting at 12:42) as 'broadband support are closed at the moment,'  and the rep I was talking to was limited to trying to persuade me to move over to Q, which is NOT going to be easy, as I do not have a standard set up, and I'm not about to spend €200 or more on upgrading my systems to solve an issue that's SKY's problem, there are 2 HD+ boxes here, one on ethernet, one on WiFi, and both of them have the same issue that 'broadband is not working', which is strange, given that every other device in the house is working very happily.

Right now, I'm sorely tempted to pull the plug, €150 a month for a basic service without much in the way of extras is way over the top for what's becoming a very second rate and poor service that was good at one time, and is now a shambles, especially for Irish Users, they can't even publish accurate phone numbers on their web site, let alone get the basics right, I've lived with it for too long, Legacy F1 is just not worth what's become an incredible premium, the rest of it just isn't worth what we're paying any more. 

Clearly something's been changed in the last week that's screwed the system, (again) and it's down to Sky, and as our broadband is also with them, they can't very well blame a third party.

[AliDun]

@Kirsty+S27 thanks for responding.  DNS & Gateway both set to 192.168.1.1

@MogwaiSatTV like you my router originally used my IPSs DNS, I tried various alternatives with no success and it's currently set to Cloudfare

@oj01 and @caesarome  I was not referring to the "answer" in this thread, I was referring to the email received by @Shut-ins which stated that the issue had been resolved.

[emteepeeess]

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@Kirsty+S27 wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking for a bit of information from your Sky boxes please so this can continue to be investigated. 

Can you provide the DNS from your Sky box. To find this:

Press Services -> Settings -> Network -> Press the green button to access Manual IP Configuration 

If you can post your DNS number and also confirm if the Gateway Router matches the DNS. 

Thank you. 

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There are three variables here:

• The DNS address the router uses (typically set by the ISP and usually can't be overridden)
• The DNS address issued by the router's DHCP (typically router's address, but can usually be overridden).
• The DNS address the Sky box uses (typically set by the router's DHCP service, but can be overridden)

If the Sky box is using the router's IP addess for DNS (typically something like 192.168.0.1) then it either checks its local DNS table (if it has one) and/or simply forwards the request to the ISP's DNS server.

However, if it is using an external IP address the router will just pass that straight through.

I've tried all combinations, to no avail - but can enumerate them if it's of any use.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Irish-Steve wrote:

for what's becoming a very second rate and poor service that was good at one time

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Well, yes, by definition that's what Sky+ (2001) and Sky+ HD (2006) now is, given the release of Sky Q (2016) and then Sky Glass/Stream (2021/22)

For context, Sky+ HD belongs to the same 'time' as Windows Vista, and for Sky+ it's Windows XP.

[Mark39]

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@emteepeeess wrote:

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To quote a friend, who's a legal specialist with a large global company:

"There are tricky legal arguments here. If the service was integral to the described provision of service at the start of, or on renewal of, the contract, then legal liability is attached even if it is excluded in the contract and/or the failure can be shown to be as a result of corporate negligence"

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I'm no legal expert, but in reality, there are very few new Sky+ contracts, those being for customers who, for some reason, cannot have Sky Q. Sky+ hasn't otherwise been sold for years.

[TimmyBGood]

@Eddy99 

Context rather than defense.  That Sky+ HD is, by tech standards, an antique platform might be something of a factor.

[Irish-Steve]

At the risk of stirring the pot even further, yes, HD+ might have been equivalent to XP,  but I'm aware of quite a few people still using XP, and Windows 8 and 10 for that matter were not exactly the stellar success that Microsoft were hoping for.

Glass is all very well if you can take the size screens they are offering, I have a very good fit 49" 4K screen wall mounted  in a unit, and with the sizes that Sky have gone for, I either have to downsize to a smaller screen, or ditch €1000 worth of fitted system furniture, which I'm not inclined to do, not yet.

Sky Q has a dire reputation here in Ireland, due to technical issues with it, and differences between the UK and Ireland packages, and we've seen and heard nothing worth talking about over here in relation to stream.

The issue at the moment is not Sky+HD as such, it's an issue with how Sky are running their network, from the very clear implication of another thread, they've completely screwed up the DNS system at their end, and only recently, this issue wasn't an issue for me until less than a week ago,  the box still works well, it's the underlying infrastructure that's been screwed up, and a lack of people that understand how it works is probably the reason for that.

We've had one form or another of Sky for close on 30 years,  and in that time, the one thing that's been very much the case is that each new release of technology has been a retrograde step for the end user, and proportionately more expensive than what it replaced. At some point, it's time to say stop.

[RogerC43]

I find this issue and sky's explanation of the issue baffling.  Either someone isn't telling the whole truth, or isn't interested in identifying the causes. 

Saying it's a DNS cache issue doesn't make any sense in the context of replacing the router with the same DNS settings, since routers themselves don't have a DNS cache.   It also doesn't make any sense in my scenario that one box connected directly to the router via wifi worked, one connected via mesh didn't work, however upon replacing simply the router, both via mesh worked.  It should be noted that after a couple of weeks I dug the old router powered it back on and tried it and got the same issue.  

I feel there is something on sky's side or on the boxes that is not working, and they don't know how to fix it for the relatively small number of users affected, without rolling back a change that they obviously made several months ago that they don't want to roll back, either for security or other reason.  With the recently announced redundancies as they focus more on streaming, and those affected have my sympathy, this probably isn't going to help matters.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Irish-Steve wrote:

At the risk of stirring the pot even further, yes, HD+ might have been equivalent to XP,  but I'm aware of quite a few people still using XP

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Still using XP is certainly possible, but given it hasn't been patched for a little under a decade*, not having it anywhere near a network or internet connection might be wise...

I'd certainly agree that Sky hasn't performed well in the context of this thread.  Personally I wish they'd been bolder and declared a definite end-of-life date for Sky+ ages ago rather than winding it down behind the scenes, but as there are still something like a couple of million households using it presumably the accountants get very nervous.

* apart from this one

[Steve0001]

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@TimmyBGood wrote

I'd certainly agree that Sky hasn't performed well in the context of this thread.  Personally I wish they'd been bolder and just declared end-of-life for Sky+ ages ago rather than winding it down behind the scenes, but as there are still something like a couple of million households using it presumably the accountants get very nervous.

* apart from this one

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Thank you for being honest. I agree with your statement. What appears to be dithering is bad for a company's reputation, frustrates customers and indicates a lack of leadership. However, Sky now being owned by Comcast somewhat dilutes the PR issue from a share price perspective.

If there are still a couple of million households on Sky+ then I am guessing that a much broader download failure (beyond those just posting or reading here) would probably induce a certain degree of apoplexy amongst those in the accountancy department, far beyond any nervousness induced by an open, honest and organised wind down of Sky+. After all, they could account for the latter! 😁

[TimmyBGood]

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@Steve0001 wrote:

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If there are still a couple of million households on Sky+

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Since Sky became a division of Comcast it's hard to find any figures, but Q uptake was well north of 70% of the satellite subscription base a few years ago and presumably carried on growing, although perhaps at a slower rate.  It's the size of the Sky audience which means even relatively small percentages are still big numbers.

[oj01]

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@Irish-Steve wrote:

So, what do Sky have to say to users that are only having problems with this issue now?

Very little, and nothing helpful., I wasted an hour yesterday trying to talk to Sky support to resolve this problem, which has only started happening in the last week, and it was effectively a waste of time, and I was supposed to get a call back this morning at 09:30, (still waiting at 12:42) as 'broadband support are closed at the moment,'  and the rep I was talking to was limited to trying to persuade me to move over to Q, which is NOT going to be easy, as I do not have a standard set up, and I'm not about to spend €200 or more on upgrading my systems to solve an issue that's SKY's problem, there are 2 HD+ boxes here, one on ethernet, one on WiFi, and both of them have the same issue that 'broadband is not working', which is strange, given that every other device in the house is working very happily.

Right now, I'm sorely tempted to pull the plug, €150 a month for a basic service without much in the way of extras is way over the top for what's becoming a very second rate and poor service that was good at one time, and is now a shambles, especially for Irish Users, they can't even publish accurate phone numbers on their web site, let alone get the basics right, I've lived with it for too long, Legacy F1 is just not worth what's become an incredible premium, the rest of it just isn't worth what we're paying any more. 

Clearly something's been changed in the last week that's screwed the system, (again) and it's down to Sky, and as our broadband is also with them, they can't very well blame a third party.

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@Irish-Steve Can you still Download from BBC and ITV like the others with this issue or is your box not connecting at all?

[Irish-Steve]

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@oj01 wrote:

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@Irish-Steve wrote:

So, what do Sky have to say to users that are only having problems with this issue now?

Very little, and nothing helpful., I wasted an hour yesterday trying to talk to Sky support to resolve this problem, which has only started happening in the last week, and it was effectively a waste of time, and I was supposed to get a call back this morning at 09:30, (still waiting at 12:42) as 'broadband support are closed at the moment,'  and the rep I was talking to was limited to trying to persuade me to move over to Q, which is NOT going to be easy, as I do not have a standard set up, and I'm not about to spend €200 or more on upgrading my systems to solve an issue that's SKY's problem, there are 2 HD+ boxes here, one on ethernet, one on WiFi, and both of them have the same issue that 'broadband is not working', which is strange, given that every other device in the house is working very happily.

Right now, I'm sorely tempted to pull the plug, €150 a month for a basic service without much in the way of extras is way over the top for what's becoming a very second rate and poor service that was good at one time, and is now a shambles, especially for Irish Users, they can't even publish accurate phone numbers on their web site, let alone get the basics right, I've lived with it for too long, Legacy F1 is just not worth what's become an incredible premium, the rest of it just isn't worth what we're paying any more. 

Clearly something's been changed in the last week that's screwed the system, (again) and it's down to Sky, and as our broadband is also with them, they can't very well blame a third party.

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@Irish-Steve Can you still Download from BBC and ITV like the others with this issue or is your box not connecting at all?

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Interesting, I've just tried a test, and I can download from More4, that's working, but if I try to download from a Sky site, Sky Max, that's dying with the error message 'There appears to be an issue with the broadband connection at this time'.

That serves to confirm that this is for sure a Sky issue, given that my Broadband is also provided by Sky, so there's no third party involved as such in this shambles.

Also interesting, but I don't know if it's relevant or not, the community site is glacially slow if accessed via Firefox, I've not tried an alternative browser yet to see if it's just the browser, or if it's a wider issue.