Underfloor connection possibility?

[Jellyhead]

I'm looking to replace an existing fttc broadband connection with a new fttp sky one but suspect the internal cabling needed could be problematic. The current (& most logical) placement of the router hub is in the hallway of my property in the middle of the house. Currently the router connects to BT copper wiring that runs under the hallway floorboards , then onto the cellar roof out to a lampost provisioned external cable. As the hallway has internal doorways in every direction and running it along the ceiling/door surrounds isn't practical I need to continue to connect the router/hub to the broadband presentation via going underfloor. I gather open reach would not be prepared to lay the fibre underfloor (even if I lifted the floor before they arrived to install?) would it be acceptable to get an underfloor ethernet cable layed by myself to connect the router/hub to the ONT mounted in the cellar? The distance between the router/hub would be in the region of 5 metres apart.

[GD1]

@Jellyhead  If the only place for the ONT is the cellar then yes, by all means if you can lay at least cat 5e or better ethernet from the cellar to where you'll be placing the hub  that should not be an issue.

[Jellyhead]

@GD1 

Thank you. I presume I'm correct in assuming that openreach wouldn't want to install the fibre cable into an exposed floor channel as that would be preferable - otherwise I'll have to get mains electrics installed in the cellar for the ONT? if the ONT does have to end up in the cellar will there be any issues from openreach in routing the fibre around multiple 90 degree bends (it will need to go through two cellar room spaces so some bends would be needed)?

[Me134]

---

@Jellyhead wrote:

@GD1 

Thank you. I presume I'm correct in assuming that openreach wouldn't want to install the fibre cable into an exposed floor channel as that would be preferable - otherwise I'll have to get mains electrics installed in the cellar for the ONT? if the ONT does have to end up in the cellar will there be any issues from openreach in routing the fibre around multiple 90 degree bends (it will need to go through two cellar room spaces so some bends would be needed)?

---

They don't fit an internal optical cable bar the pigtail from the external Customer Splice Point (CSP) to the internal ONT usually. It will depend entirely on your particular location re. accessibility. You'll need to talk to them when they arrive and come to an agreement on the best option for all. Edit: Extra work may be possible but will no doubt be chargeable (or not apparently 😞 ). I suspect right angles are a no no.

If you can get power down there and it's easily accessible then I'd use cat5e or cat 6 cable as there are flexible versions and length is not an issue internally around the house.

[Chrisee]

@Jellyhead the ONT needs to be accessible so is most likely to be mounted in a room on the inside of the exterior wall where the CSP is installed. The route the old copper cable uses maybe used but often is not and the exterior access hole will have to be drilled above any damp course so mounting a unit in a cellar is unlikely.

Fibre cable has limited flexibility and definitely cannot be bent 90 degrees. The install has a limited time and cost allocation so there is not a lot of flexibility although most engineers will try to meet reasonable requests. Sky do not offer a facility for customers to pay for extra work.

As pointed out the positioning of the ONT does not dictate the position of the hub and ethernet cable is far easier to run than fibre,. Cat 6 cable is ample as higher grades tend to be less flexible and more difficult to run. 

[TimmyBGood]

@Jellyhead 

For information: optical pigtail cable can follow a 90 degree curve (and will in fact coil round on itself quite happily) : what it can't do is tuck tightly into a 90 degree corner.

Typically a minimum 30mm bend radius is advised.

[Doc5907]

@Jellyhead 

THIS  is the cable i used for repositioning of the hub by two rooms (70ft) in my place. Its good quality ethernet cable...

[Jellyhead]

Thanks for you replies folks - very helpful. Rightly or wrongly I've taken the short term decision today to avoid the problem for a while and recontract for a fttc service with sky similar to my current service from their sister company (Now Broadband). I was under time pressure before my current service became very expensive and running with a supplied router that support has been withdrawn for and no replacement offered. 

it's a pity Sky do not offer (according to these replies) the Openreach option to select at extra cost their 'Premium' install as it would be far more prefereable to me to pay more for the install and have the ONT in the hallway to avoid the cost to get electrics installed in the cellar and lay the ethernet cable. In slower time I'll weigh up whether, on next renewal, I either go with BT and use their 'Premium' install option or put in place more underfloor ethernet and cellar electrics. I did phone BT and they do offer the 'Premium' install service which according to them works on the basis of you being charged half the more complex install cost. However you need to place a broadband order with them before they'll conduct a survey to give you the cost. I didn't leave myself enough time to go that route this time around unfortunately. 

[Me134]

@Jellyhead Have you actually signed up already with Sky, as it was my understanding (perhaps wrongly) that if FTTP was available then all other options were off the table?

Given the increased cost of BT, is the out of contract cost of Now BB for a short while that big a deal?

Edit: BTW given you have a cellar can you not have an ONT fitted on the ground floor at whichever is the nearest side of the house near a power point and then simply drop an ethernet cable through the floorboards at that point. 

[Jellyhead]

@Me134 

i did sign up with sky but I guess I could alter that in terms of cool off period. I'd have to have a read of the small print. On the initial call there was one mention of the fttc option but was instantly dismissed as it was half the bandwidth of my current fttc offering. It was only after I'd left the call on the basis that I needed to think about the full fibre options offered that sky then called me back soon after the call and offered me a much faster fttc option.

You have though given me a thought of a cable route to the ONT I'd not thought of before. There's an option to divert the incoming fibre into a nearby ground floor room which sits above the main cellar room albeit further away from where I was thinking of entering the house. That has two double mains sockets in that vicinity. If I got the ONT box installed there I should be able to run ethernet down into the cellar, across into a conduit where I had other ethernet cabling installed and then lift the hallway floor to present where the router currently sits. Unfortunately the cellar doesn't go under the hallway - hence having to lift the floor but it's where I had other ethernet laid during previous building works. Feeling a bit stupid I didn't think of that before..... Thanks for triggering that thought. 

[Jellyhead]

I meant to say the fttc option offered was circa half the price of the existing service proposed rollover cost and gave me a new in support router too. In the short term I'm happy with that as I could do with some time to organise lifting the floor and running cabling. I think I'll get on with doing that first and then trigger a switch to full fibre at a future date when I've laid the ethernet. 

[Jellyhead]

back to full fibre. Sky contacted me this morning to state they are unable to sell me the fttc option offered so I've had to go for full fibre. I guess I need to accelerate my ethernet cable laying up the priority list. 

Quick question. I've a large property. one way of avoiding laying the ethernet cable is to go for a MESH wifi solution which I presume is sky's wifi max add-on at extra monthly cost. I personally have a general aversion for rental solutions in cases where I can buy outright. Is there anything stopping me installing a third party MESH solution if I wish?

[TimmyBGood]

---

@Jellyhead wrote:

Is there anything stopping me installing a third party MESH solution if I wish?

---

No, and realistically that's likely to be better hardware.

Just be aware that mesh solutions where one node is also a router may not be compatible (and certainly won't replace a Sky Hub if you need voice telephony)

[Me134]

---

@Jellyhead wrote:

back to full fibre. Sky contacted me this morning to state they are unable to sell me the fttc option offered so I've had to go for full fibre. I guess I need to accelerate my ethernet cable laying up the priority list. 

Quick question. I've a large property. one way of avoiding laying the ethernet cable is to go for a MESH wifi solution which I presume is sky's wifi max add-on at extra monthly cost. I personally have a general aversion for rental solutions in cases where I can buy outright. Is there anything stopping me installing a third party MESH solution if I wish?

---

I had a feeling that was going to happen.

As above, I'd personally do your research on a purchased mesh system as once it's in place you just need to plug one of the nodes into the new router. Everything connected via wifi or ethernet to a node won't be aware of any change.

I don't know your exact layout but you could connect the ISP router near to the router with it's wifi disabled and either have a node nearby and plugged in or use a longer ethernet cable dropped down into the cellar and then coming up wherever is suitable and easiest. The other nodes would then mesh with the first (plugged in) node. You could have nodes placed near to a PC or a Sky Q box and wire them to the node to maximise your system.

Consider investing in a fairly future proof mesh system (say wifi 7 capable) if possible, dependant on your needs.

[Jellyhead]

Thanks - I will reasearch mesh systems as I know little about them.

@Me134 If I'm reading your equipment signature correctly are your tp-link access points hard wired back to the first node or via wifi? if the latter what's your experience of reliability of connection that way? whilst it can be done laying more ethernet is a pain for me involving pulling up both carpets and floorboards so if I could get away without having to do that it would have an appeal.