New Sky Hub - Causing issues with 3rd Party WiFi

[lanky_doodle]

My parents have a bespoke wireless setup in their house. 3 NETGEAR PoE APs all wired back to a PoE switch. These APs have been tuned for roaming and performance. There are principally no issues with this setup, and never has been since it was installed.

They have also had an old Sky Hub for ages, with its own WiFi disabled. This was replaced by a Sky enginner last week for the newest Hub and since then, this 3rd party WiFi has begun encountering big issues. Basically, everything goes offline.

From a connctivity PoV, it's Sky Hub > PoE switch > some hardwired devices and then the PoE ports to the NETGEAR APs. All of the hardwired devices go offline too. Power cycling everything fixes it, but only for a few minutes then it all goes dead again.

To me it seems like a Spanning Tree issue with the new Sky Hub; plug the old Hub back in and the problems go away.

Has anyone encountered this before and what was the fix?

Thanks

[Chrisee]

@lanky_doodle first of all disable the Sky hub's wifi which if it's a white hub is done in the My Sky app under product settings. Thst may sort the issue. However if it doesn't then thingscare more complex. If the switch is managed it could be a configuration issue like an incorrect mtu setting Sky should support 1500 but you could try a lower value.

[lanky_doodle]

Thanks for the reply.

WiFi is already disabled on the new router/hub (both bands). I don't believe it's a white one as I was able to go in the web UI and disable it there. I'll ask my parents to double confirm though.

It's not a managed switch. This one: TL-SG1008P | 8-Port Gigabit Desktop PoE Switch with 4-Port PoE+ | TP-Link United Kingdom

[lanky_doodle]

PS: they also have Sky Q and reading today suggests the new white hub can't be used with Sky Q's proprietary mesh system.

[JimM1]

@lanky_doodle So what do you have black or white?

[Chrisee]

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@lanky_doodle wrote:

PS: they also have Sky Q and reading today suggests the new white hub can't be used with Sky Q's proprietary mesh system.

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Thst is true BUT in the set up you describe with the Q boxes presumably using the APs they are not using that feature. The Q boxes weird networking though can cause issues and are a likely candidate for the cause of your issue. Try running with them unplugged. . 

That switch does not seem to be managed so is less likely to be your problem.

[lanky_doodle]

It's black. But Sky phoned them back earlier to say this was a mistake and they should have had a white one, which they're now sending apparently.

[JimM1]

@lanky_doodle Nothing strange from what you are doing, what is the other sky hub that is working fine with the system? What is the reason for change, and the norm is Sky Q to Sky Broadband Hub which sounds like what you have, so strange why sky Max hub being sent now?

[lanky_doodle]

By 'old' hub I mean the really old one mentioned here: UK ISP Sky Broadband Launch New Sky Hub Router with Integrated FTTC - ISPreview UK

So Sky probably want to get everyone off it for support and security (no firmware updates for example) reasons.

Some posts (not here) have mentioned actually switching to a managed switch to be able to control STP. This seems to deviate from the general suggestion that unmanaged switches are 'easier'.

[Chrisee]

@lanky_doodle both that model and the newer Sky Q flat style hub have been withdrawn as neither could meet the new government security requirements due to be introduced later this year. Anyone with one should have been offered a switch to the Broadband Hub.

Your issue becomes clearer as .those okd hubs should not have been used with Sky Q and should have been replaced by the flat style when Q was installed as they were specifically designed for the system. As a senior Sky engineer told me soon after the launch of Q "forget what you think you know about networking as Q does things differently". The new Broadbsnd hub is Q compatable and the issue is likely to be due to the boxes seeing the router but not being connected to its Q mesh directly. 

Managed switches are not a widely used option as they can cause issues especially where Sky Q boxes are in the network as the mesh system they uses is very picky about what else is on the network. They are great if you understand the issues and how they work but over the years I have answered numerous  posts from customers who took home a redundant switch from work and found all sorts of issues.  

[lanky_doodle]

Thanks.

When I search for this issue, most topics including Gemini point to Sky Q like you have suggested. But, if I take Sky Q completely out of the equation this problem still exists. So the root problem is the new Hub. It is not simply the fact of connecting Sky Q that causes it. And even then, with the old hub I have with Sky Q connected to 3rd party wifi, everything is fine.

What models are those withdrawn and what is the one that is allowed? I guess the one we're using that works is one that is withdrawn. WiFi capabilities are irrelevant for us since we diable it anyway.

From Google "new sky broadband hub"

• Sky Broadband Hub (Standard): <--- is this our current working one, and withdrawn?

  Included with basic fiber, a reliable upgrade from older models with smart channel selection and gigabit ports.

• Sky Max Hub: <-- withdrawn?

  For Superfast/Ultrafast, includes WiFi Max features (mesh pods for better coverage) and WiFi 6 for improved performance, replacing older WiFi 5 hubs.

• Sky Gigafast+ Hub: <-- good?

  For Gigafast (2.5Gbps/5Gbps) plans, featuring the latest WiFi 7 for twice the speed of WiFi 6, ideal for demanding uses like 8K streaming and gaming.

[JimM1]

@lanky_doodle Use this link below, sky will send you the sky Broadband Hub to replace that old one! Works well with sky Q Tv and mini mesh with the SE210 booster if needed!

www.sky.com/skyhuboptions

and them all below from this link.

https://www.sky.com/help/articles/broadband-diagnostic-which-sky-hub

[Chrisee]

@lanky_doodle see the picture on this page the current hubs are on the first line. The two I mentioned in my last post are on the second line and are obsolete. The black Broadband Hub  SR203 is both fully updated and a very well known model. Sky only send out the two white models in limited circumstances basically with the Sky Mac hub if you buy their WiFi Max service or subscribe to a 500Mb/s or 1Gb/s service. The Sky Gigafast+ model,is only provided where customers buy the 2.5 ot 5Gb/s tiers.

There are differences between the SR203 and the ancient unit in use before it has a much more powerful processor and is a fully duual band WiFi unit supporting WiFi5. It is well proven with many millions in use. It fully supports Sky Q and it is known you can get issues with third party WiFi and there are Q boxes. That you say you have disproved that means if you are correct I am stuck.

Perhaps the best solution is to buy a third party modem router and use that instead assuming this is a partial fibre service?.  Unless it has changed TP-Link modem routers have a profile for Sky FTTC and are not expensive. The only down side is loss of the Sky digital Voice line which requires the Sky hub. If you parent's line is still analogue it will,becswitched later this year.

[lanky_doodle]

thanks both.

So it turns out the one the engineer installed last week is the 'Sky Broadband Hub' (top right in the link you both sent). I am 99% sure the problem exists without having the Sky Q box connected to WiFi at all (or ethernet since that's not currently an option).

I didn't think Sky allowed the use of 3rd party routers anymore, so that's definitely an option (I get they won't support the actual router itself).

[lanky_doodle]

...and yes it's partial fibre. FTTP not available yet in their area.