G.Fast Line Attenuation stats - Only D1 showing a value

[jamesn123]

@pip75 

Your results are perfectly normal for a standard Sky router. It has no proper QoS and as soon as you start using the bandwidth, especially upload your going to immediately get increased ping, jitter and loss. What do the results look like if you use a proper router with QoS configured?

[pip75]

@jamesn123 

Without purchasing a new G.fast router I wouldn't know.  Can you recommend a replacement? 
I understand the sky routers are entry-level but other customers experience no issues with gaming. 

I've got a Netgear as a second hop that handles the QoS/congestion control but I get pretty much the same results.  However, I suspect when it reaches the sky router I imagine and packet headers are dropped.

Maybe a network engineer could explain the QoS prioritisation and whether packets lose that information or if the secondary router is in the DMZ it can retain them. 

[jamesn123]

@pip75 

The majority of other sky customers won't be measuring their jitter while saturating the upstream.

I'm on fttc using an Asus AX88u and if I saturate my upload even with very good QoS my jitter increases and I get a good 25-50ms ping increase and spike during games.

Why is your upload being saturated so much when you game?

[pip75]

@jamesn123 

I've been trying to get the bottom of why my gaming experience is so bad. 

I've been trying all sorts to get to the bottom of it for a few months which is why I've started digging a bit deeper into UDP traffic, jitter, ping. 

I've reset the sky hub back to factory settings

Disconnected all other devices from the wifi and lan ports 
Playstation 5 is wired  Cat 6

The in game ping monitor is fluctuating between 16 to 30 ms every game which shouldn't be happening when the game is running at 128kbps up and down  

[pip75]

@jamesn123  Just had a look at the Asus router that you mentioned and noticed that it only had a WAN port and not G.fast connection,  I take it you have a separate modem in front of the Asus that connects to the Gfast master socket?  

[LGUser]

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@pip75 wrote:

@jamesn123 

I've been trying to get the bottom of why my gaming experience is so bad. 

I've been trying all sorts to get to the bottom of it for a few months which is why I've started digging a bit deeper into UDP traffic, jitter, ping. 

I've reset the sky hub back to factory settings

Disconnected all other devices from the wifi and lan ports 
Playstation 5 is wired  Cat 6

The in game ping monitor is fluctuating between 16 to 30 ms every game which shouldn't be happening when the game is running at 128kbps up and down  

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Maybe you should have gone for an XBox Series X.

[JPR007]

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@pip75 wrote:

@jamesn123 

I've been trying to get the bottom of why my gaming experience is so bad. 

I've been trying all sorts to get to the bottom of it for a few months which is why I've started digging a bit deeper into UDP traffic, jitter, ping. 

I've reset the sky hub back to factory settings

Disconnected all other devices from the wifi and lan ports 
Playstation 5 is wired  Cat 6

The in game ping monitor is fluctuating between 16 to 30 ms every game which shouldn't be happening when the game is running at 128kbps up and down  

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@pip75 Ping fluctuates all the time while gaming it's not necessarily down to your router, it's the route the traffic goes across the internet and servers response and load on the end. A ping of 16-30ms is considered very good so I'm not quite sure why it's causing such an issue?

As long as you are using an Ethernet cable which you are, you won't get it much lower, unless you decide to have infrastructure grade connections installed to your property and host the game servers there too.

The vast majority of people (at their peril) use Wi-Fi and would be lucky to have stable ping below 100ms. I've played World of Tanks for a while (via Ethernet obviously), ping fluctuates anywhere from 1ms up to 25-35ms (averages 10-15) all game, but there's no packet loss and it runs perfectly. The amount of times you get players going "laaaag 999ms ping" while I'm sat there with no issue showing 12ms I've lost count...because they're using Wi-Fi...

[pip75]

@jamesn123  
I understand that ping will fluctuate and I've probably have the lowest ping out of the players I normally play with, yet the gaming experience is very poor, almost unplayable. 

I've using hard wired into the router and changed the cable serveral times whist trouble shooting.  
I occsionally see packet loss icons come up in the game but 99% of the time there is no indication of any network issues other than frame rate drops and poor hit detection. 

Everyones perspective of online game play and lag is dependend on their experience and yes some will scream lag but some generally have a case especially when they are wired.   
With UDP traffic it highlights any inefficiencies in the network route. 

Dropped, resent, fragmented or incorrect order of packets can affect game play as they are all time sensitive. For instance a packet may not be lost it just arrives in the wrong order and due to the time sensitive nature, the game server ignores it. 

Without proper diagnostic tools such as wireshark and iperf most people cannot track the issue. 

[jamesn123]

@pip75 

I understand it all, I am a Systems/Network engineer myself. Even with my fibre setup, 3rd party router, configured QoS, game mode etc I still find hit detection & packet loss to be an occasional issue. Its more down to the routing & game servers rather than your individual connection which unfortunately can often leave you unable to do anything about it. 

My suggestion to you would be that Sky & G.Fast are not the services for you if you are that sensitive in games. 

[LGUser]

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@jamesn123 wrote:

@pip75 

My suggestion to you would be that Sky & G.Fast are not the services for you if you are that sensitive in games. 

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If you do decide to leave SKy Broadband, do not get BT or EE or you very well could have troubvle downloading from Sky. You have to decide if you want better gaming or Sky downloads.

[Mrmatthews]

I keep looking at my own broadband quality when i experience blatent missed lag related or non existant bullets in FPS games. but i'm starting to believe this is more related to other players poorer connections, and the games trying to balance indifferent connection speeds between players.

I upgraded to SKYs 150mb Deal 18 months ago and noticed more wierd lack of bullet hits in games, few months later i spent a few months at a freinds house playing on their 75MB sky Broadband, with games feeling fairer with more shots landing and actually getting more kills then deaths

game makers always point the finger at my broadband, but even with little knowledge of what im looking at i can see my Sky seems to run pretty well, MUCH better then my experiances on BT infinity and Virgin media i might add.

[Mrmatthews]

 

 

[Mrmatthews]

 My Router Stats are very similar to yours. except the higher noise margin. which i believe is better?

[cookiemonsteruk]

@Mrmatthews 

For vdsl dlm is used to adjust speeds in response to line conditions. Not so pertinent on g.fast where fast rate adaptation/adjusment is the norm. I would agree on the bit where no matter how good your gaming gear is the servers will adjust to the lowest specs

[pip75]

@Mrmatthews out of curiosity can you run a speed test from Mlab https://speed.measurementlab.net/
and see if you are getting retransmission? 

I'm seeing about 5% on a wired connection yet 0% when I hotspot to my phone.