Current third party router recommendations for FTTP?

[DanTup]

We've just moved to Sky and after finding out how locked down the router is (eg. I can't configure DHCP/DNS to use Pihole) I was considering a third party router. Then we discovered the WiFi seems very broken in the Hub (full details here) so I'm fairly sure we'll end up going this route.

I'm looking for recommendations, my desires are:

• Must work with Sky plugged directly into the ONT (obviously)
• Must allow me to control DHCP and the DNS servers assigned
• Would be nice if I can have some control to stop one client saturating the line affecting others (eg. I don't want a big download to trash the TV, gaming, or voice chat on other devices)
• Would prefer a router UI that isn't going to try to upsell me to cloud **bleep** that I don't want (I feel like this motivates not giving complete control, and before you know it you have something like the current Sky router where I can't even change the SSID through the routers UI!)
• Must have good antennas to cover the entire house from one device in one corner of the house (the Vodafone PowerHub covered the whole house fine so hopefully this isn't difficult)
• Must have at least a couple of 1Gbps ethernet ports

I've seen some recommendations of Asus RT AX58U, Asus RT AX88U and Asus ZenWiFi XT8 mentioned around here, but I don't know if these are the most up-to-date recommendations, or if they cover all of the above. When I asked Gemini for recommendations, it said for Asus devices to use Asuswrt-Merlin but really I want something where the stock firmware is not bad, but I'm not totally against replacing it (I've heard good things about OpenWRT, but I don't know if it might be overkill).

Opinions and recommendations would be appreciated 🙂

[GD1]

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@DanTup wrote:

We've just moved to Sky and after finding out how locked down the router is (eg. I can't configure DHCP/DNS to use Pihole) I was considering a third party router. Then we discovered the WiFi seems very broken in the Hub (full details here) so I'm fairly sure we'll end up going this route.

I'm looking for recommendations, my desires are:

• Must work with Sky plugged directly into the ONT (obviously)
• Must allow me to control DHCP and the DNS servers assigned
• Would be nice if I can have some control to stop one client saturating the line affecting others (eg. I don't want a big download to trash the TV, gaming, or voice chat on other devices)
• Would prefer a router UI that isn't going to try to upsell me to cloud **bleep** that I don't want (I feel like this motivates not giving complete control, and before you know it you have something like the current Sky router where I can't even change the SSID through the routers UI!)
• Must have good antennas to cover the entire house from one device in one corner of the house (the Vodafone PowerHub covered the whole house fine so hopefully this isn't difficult)
• Must have at least a couple of 1Gbps ethernet ports

I've seen some recommendations of Asus RT AX58U, Asus RT AX88U and Asus ZenWiFi XT8 mentioned around here, but I don't know if these are the most up-to-date recommendations, or if they cover all of the above. When I asked Gemini for recommendations, it said for Asus devices to use Asuswrt-Merlin but really I want something where the stock firmware is not bad, but I'm not totally against replacing it (I've heard good things about OpenWRT, but I don't know if it might be overkill).

Opinions and recommendations would be appreciated 🙂

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Pretty much any NON Isp router will have all of the above.

You have a choice from the likes of TP-Link, EERO, Asus, Draytek, Netgear etc.

[DanTup]

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@GD1 wrote:

Pretty much any NON Isp router will have all of the above.

You have a choice from the likes of TP-Link, EERO, Asus, Draytek, Netgear etc.

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Yeah, I'm trying to narrow it down with the help of other peoples experiences. Things often aren't straight-forward, or sometimes the software ends up being hot garbage or trying to sell you things you don't want. My father recently bought a new router and the web UI was this awful re-implementation of a desktop with all sorts of web services that I definitely wouldn't want 😄

Really I'd like something similar to how ISP routers used to be, when we used to have full access to all the settings with simple forms, and not tied into cloud services I have no interest in.

Thanks! 🙂

[GD1]

@DanTup  Personally I rate Draytek my current setup uses a 3910 mult Wan router, a bit overkill for most.

Asus & TP-link seems to be the most favoured with other posters on the community, no doubt they'll depart their knowledge.

[Chrisee]

@DanTup Asus are not cheap but are relatively easy to configure for connection tonSjyblines. TP-Link are cheaper but do not support DHCPv4 Option61 which around 20% of sky's Openreach lines require.

[DanTup]

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@Chrisee wrote:

@DanTup TP-Link are cheaper but do not support DHCPv4 Option61 which around 20% of sky's Openreach lines require.

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Do you know what determines if this is required? Gemini just told me that it's only required for FTTC, and not for FTTP (we are FTTP) but I don't know if that's accurate.

I've managed to borrow a Linksys MX5500 which I'm not sure supports it, so that might be a good test. I won't get to test it until the weekend though.

[Me134]

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@DanTup wrote:

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@Chrisee wrote:

@DanTup TP-Link are cheaper but do not support DHCPv4 Option61 which around 20% of sky's Openreach lines require.

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Do you know what determines if this is required? Gemini just told me that it's only required for FTTC, and not for FTTP (we are FTTP) but I don't know if that's accurate.

I've managed to borrow a Linksys MX5500 which I'm not sure supports it, so that might be a good test. I won't get to test it until the weekend though.

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Gemini is very wrong (big surprise) as it's dependant on whether they're still using the legacy exchange equipment or not, nothing to do with FTTP or FTTC. Annoyingly, you can only find out by trying it (or perhaps asking an OR or Sky engineer out in the street).

I beleive the Linksys MX5500 does not support Option 61.

[DanTup]

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@Me134 wrote:
Gemini is very wrong (big surprise) as it's dependant on whether they're still using the legacy exchange equipment or not, nothing to do with FTTP or FTTC. Annoyingly, you can only find out by trying it (or perhaps asking an OR or Sky engineer out in the street).

I beleive the Linksys MX5500 does not support Option 61.

Thanks, I guess this router will be a good way to find out then 🙂 I presume if it's not required here now, that's unlikely to change in the future? Although maybe it's worth picking a router that supports it just in case.

[Me134]

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@DanTup wrote:

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@Me134 wrote:
Gemini is very wrong (big surprise) as it's dependant on whether they're still using the legacy exchange equipment or not, nothing to do with FTTP or FTTC. Annoyingly, you can only find out by trying it (or perhaps asking an OR or Sky engineer out in the street).

I beleive the Linksys MX5500 does not support Option 61.

Thanks, I guess this router will be a good way to find out then 🙂 I presume if it's not required here now, that's unlikely to change in the future? Although maybe it's worth picking a router that supports it just in case.

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Option 61 is legacy tech, if it's not there now it never will be.

[danny778]

Hey,

Just upgraded to Full Fibre 500 plan and had it installed today. Wi-Fi speeds are great downstairs (where the router is), but drop off significnatly upstairs. I've been looking into 3rd party routers and the general consensus seems to be that Asus is a good fit as they broadly support DHCPv4 Option 61. It would be great if anybody could help suggest an Asus router that costs up to £100 (including second hand) and has great Wi-Fi signal strength. Something that in general people are pleased with and gets brought up a bit? Additionally, is there any further configuration that the router would need beyond plug and play?

Thank you.

[Me134]

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@danny778 wrote:

Hey,

Just upgraded to Full Fibre 500 plan and had it installed today. Wi-Fi speeds are great downstairs (where the router is), but drop off significnatly upstairs. I've been looking into 3rd party routers and the general consensus seems to be that Asus is a good fit as they broadly support DHCPv4 Option 61. It would be great if anybody could help suggest an Asus router that costs up to £100 (including second hand) and has great Wi-Fi signal strength. Something that in general people are pleased with and gets brought up a bit? Additionally, is there any further configuration that the router would need beyond plug and play?

Thank you.

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If you're already getting great wifi coverage downstairs then I'd argue that you just need an extender upstairs rather than replace the router. This would be perhaps the easiest option, presuming you don't need full access to the router interface. It'll be cheaper too.

1. Either the (paid, 24 month subscription) Sky Max WiFi add-on, you have to request your first pod AFTER signing up. These do have 2 ethernet ports which can either be connected via cable back to the main Hub if the house is wired (giving full speed and stability to that particular pod), with the possibility of wiring a device (or 2 if using wifi for connection to the Hub or other extender).

https://www.sky.com/broadband/wifi-max

2. A TP-Link RE450 AC1750 WiFi Extender(£40) which has a handy ethernet port.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-RE450-AC1750Mbps-Dual-Band-Simultaneous/dp/B013SYHHI2/?th=1

The issue with extenders is that they should be placed halfway between the Hub and wherever you need the wifi signal, they can't improve a weak signal, purely pass it on. That can negate the usefulness of the ethernet port.

3. A Powerline setup such as the TP-Link AV1000 kIT (£70), you wire the base station to the Sky Hub and it connects via the electrical wires to the upstairs wifi extender. You would have access to an ethernet connection upstairs (stable and lag free to the Hub) for computers, consoles or multi-room boxes but the wifi will only be around 25-50% or so of your total speed. It is also possibly subject to the layout of your house electrical setup and possible occasional interference from the likes of hoovers, microwaves and fridge/freezers.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-WPA7617-KIT-Powerline-streaming/dp/B08QSK84JL?th=1

4. A wifi mesh system such as a pack of 3 TP-Link M4s in AP mode perhaps (£119), with 1 wired to the Sky Hub and the Sky wifi disabled, and the other 2 distributed wherever suits, to give total wifi coverage with far superior stability and speed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deco-M4-Seamless-Coverage-Replacement/dp/B07NH1J543/?th=1

[Chrisee]

@danny778 whilst I agree with most of @Me134 's post I would caution the recommendation of using a third party extender with the Sky Max hub having answered several posts where these have not performed well with speeds dropping, it is no clear exactly what is going on but my suspicion is that the extenders are not able to cope with the Sky Max hub's use of automatic channel choice in the 5GHz band. There is also a risk of interference between the hub and the extender. My own recommendation is to use the Sky pods which come as part of the WiFi Max or use a third party system not to mix both. 

[Me134]

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@Chrisee wrote:

@danny778 whilst I agree with most of @Me134 's post I would caution the recommendation of using a third party extender with the Sky Max hub having answered several posts where these have not performed well with speeds dropping, it is no clear exactly what is going on but my suspicion is that the extenders are not able to cope with the Sky Max hub's use of automatic channel choice in the 5GHz band. There is also a risk of interference between the hub and the extender. My own recommendation is to use the Sky pods which come as part of the WiFi Max or use a third party system not to mix both. 

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Yes, agreed, I've struck out that option.

[DanTup]

So, I did some testing with the Linksys MX5500 I borrowed...

I managed to get a connection after changing the WAN IPv4 from PPPoE to DHCP. However, I was unable to get IPv6 working (I apparently had no public IPv6 address so all online tests just failed). I did find on this Linksys support page that "there may be cases when the Internet Service Provider (ISP) uses a combination that does not agree with the feature" so I don't know if that's related.

Gemini tells me that the fact IPv4 worked means Option61 was not required and not the cause of the IPv6 issue. If all of these things are true, then it sounds like any third party non-Linksys router should be fine?

As for Linksys router itself - what a load of garbage. I definitely will not buy a Linksys. Issues included:

• It tries to force you to use an app.. you have to know that you can click on the mobile phone image (which has no "link" cursor) on the App splash page when you try to access the web app to get through without the app
• Every time you change a setting and it does an automatic reboot, it goes back into "setup" mode (purple light) and I had to power cycle to get it back actually working and accepting connections
• It takes multiple minutes to boot
• None of my devices would connect to the 5Ghz network when using the same SSIDs. Gemini suggested disabling the routers "Client steering", but trying to disable it results in a "NodeNotMaster"(?) error (it's the only node and I had just factory reset it!)

What a poor experience. Apparently the app splash screen used to have a button at the bottom of the page to continue to the web app, but the fact that they removed this and you have to know the secret to click on the image is pretty ridiculous.

If anyone is able to confirm that IPv4 working means we don't need Option 61, and the IPv6 issue is likely the mentioned Linksys firmware bug, that would be really helpful and probably mean I've a larger choice of routers. Probably I'll try to find some reviews that show their web apps before ordering though 😄

Thanks 🙂

[Chrisee]

@DanTup Sky have a dual stack so not sure why the router you used is not showing an IP6 address. Sounds like your line supports DHCPv6 PD (prefix delegation) which many routers support which of course requires IP6 but leave it connected fir a frw hourscto check it renews the lease correctly.

Most router  makers are switching to app control to avoid issues modern browsers have with the web interfaces the do not offer https certification and becausecmany5 customers don't like web interfaces - its called progress.