Broadband Issues - REIN suspected - Require help

[Martin5973]

Good Morning,

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post.

I have Ultrafast single line order, sold @Anonymous Down. Have had for around 2 years. Prior to that, was superfast around 77 down and had virtually no issues in 10 + years. I have been with Sky now for 20 plus years.

For some time now (around 18 months on and off), i have been getting highly variable speeds that are proportionate to Noise Margins which, when good are at 3.0dB, but have been seen anywhere up to 20dB. Distance from cab to property is circa 200m. From initial sell, apart from some initial teething issues, i was getting 159 down, noise of 3.0 dB and solid line performance for 8 months. There was then a major network outage in the locality and since then, ive been experiencing these issues. I have not had any significant works in my property in recent years.

Sky have concluded its not anything to do with in house set up. Sky Engineers have attended.

Open reach have so far;

1) Replaced equipment in cabinet on a number of times. 

2) Have provisioned new pairs from cab to the local junction

3) Have confirmed cable is copper throughout

4) Have dug and provisioned new locals from local junction to property, relocated and provided new master socket.

Throughout, if the DLM is reset, i get a period of around two weeks where the noise remains at 3.0dB with max speed attainable. 

Open Reach had previously stated that there was a possibility of this being REIN, but that this was external to my property.

Since then, each time its failed, Open Reach have been attending, resetting the DLM, saying everything is alright and closing the fault. Sky have been powerless to influence this despite my complaints.

I have been case managed on three seperate occasions now. 

On the last Open Reach attendance, they were requested by Sky, to undertake a "lift and shift" at the exchange. I do not know what this means, but they did not attend the exchange and therefore did not complete what was requested by Sky. Sky have been told this,. but seemingly thats ok.

They once again focussed their efforts local and replaced equipment in cab. They have stated that if they place a dummy loop at the local junction and they state they see no errors at this point. They then requested that we switch off our main isolator for the electricity supply to our property. They stated that they were seeing no errors at the master socket. Then when we switched our electrical supply back on they apparently immediately started seeing errors. So they concluded as REIN in property. 

However, neither Sky nor Open Reach are prepared to assist me any further (and i am happy to pay for the service). I have no mechanism for checking what the Open Reach errors were or were not seeing. I can only look at noise margin.

Sky have said they will not book anyone in to support this and Open Reach say theyre not my provider. 

When the noise increases, according to the router statistics the noise is there all the time, so is not a particular day of the week or time of the day issue. 

Sky have suggested switching off electrical elements until the circuit improves. But clearly i cant do this if it means extended periods off before i should see an improvement.

I have been and looked with an analogue radio on 612kHz, i have found a couple of power adapters with some noise and have switched them off, but i am unable to get the noise margin back to 3 dB with all of my circuits isolated (except the supply for the router). I let the Router Statistics run a few polls to see if there is any movement.

Sky's answer to this after 20 years of loyalty is to leave them ! They cant downgrade me to superfast (which i would be happy with), instead have to take me back to ADSL of 2 down ! Open Reach have said this is simply down to Sky's internal systems as there is no reason i cant go onto Superfast single line order. I do not particularly want to do this.

Its amazing that Sky havent been able to help and challenge Open Reach. But now its alledgedly in my property, Sky are more than happy to take the word of one engineer, ignore the countless ones before who discounted an issue in my property.

So my questions are;

1) Can anyone help / advise on how i can continue to detect REIN within my property. Use of an AM radio seems to be a bit hit and miss and as whilst i have foun d some noise, ive not been able to lower the noise margin.

2) Should Sky be able to request the assitance of a REIN engineer to formally locate this within my property (if it is there !) ? And i acknowledge this would be chargeable 

3) How quickly should i expect to see the noise margin reduce following switching off electrical elements?

4) How do i "prove" to Sky that this isnt in my property? Because otherwise, theyre not going to rectify any future faults on my circuit.

4) Are Sky able to downgrade me to Superfast, without the ache of having to go from Ultrafast to ADSL to Superfast?

I havent posted copies of router stats, but i am able to if this helps.

Thanks

Martin

[Lisa-P1987]

Thank you for escalating this. We have now sent Martin5973 an invite to chat 🙂

[TimmyBGood]

@Martin5973 

As that's G.fast, do you have any Powerline networking adapters at your address (or perhaps even in use by close neighbours)? 

[Martin5973]

@TimmyBGood 

I do, but have since been along and switched all of these off and these make no difference to the noise margin. 

I had two power adaptors to LED lights in bedrooms which were making audible noise on the AM radio, they are now switched off. 

I also had a noisy power supply to a tv adaptor, thats also switched off. 

None of this is making any difference to the noise margin on the router stats. However, on the AM radio at 612 i have most of the noise and in and around the router / master socket, its clear. I think tbh i need a REIN engineer, however, i cannot seem to get this booked in at all.

[Martin5973]

@Lisa-P1987 

Have responded to the chat request

[TimmyBGood]

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@Martin5973 wrote:

I think tbh i need a REIN engineer, however, i cannot seem to get this booked in at all.

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Unfortunately once the ISP has offered to release you from any early termination contract obligations, they aren't required to make any effort to do so (even if Openreach actually still have such staff who aren't otherwise occupied*): realistically I suspect that after that many visits they want to shift your case to another companies helpdesk.

* "Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months" 

[Martin5973]

I understand that, however, i am happy to pay for this service, if it is in my property !

Im no longer in a contract period anyway. But how can an ISP and OpenReach turn up, say its in your property and then give you no mechanism of resolving it? I can go along an switch parts off, but how do i check? How long do i wait? Fundamentally, all Sky and Openreach have said is turn off the power to the house ! Fantastic !

I am well aware of the published REIN issues on the internet, but im the only person in my area being impacted................ 

[TimmyBGood]

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@Martin5973 wrote:

 But how can an ISP and OpenReach turn up, say its in your property and then give you no mechanism of resolving it?

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By effectively reserving the right to do so as a clause in the contract, I suspect.

If we are unable to resolve any technical issues you may be having on your line or are delayed in doing so and the fault persists:
(i) in the case of a line speed below the minimum download speed (and that lower line speed has occurred for 3 consecutive days) you may select an alternative lower speed Product (if one is available to you) or end this contract under Condition 10(c) without incurring early termination charges

[Highlinder]

@Martin5973It is hard for to get an ISP to take on that this is the possible root cause of your internet and the speed. I had a similar issue and that lasted over 6 months with Openreach having to come out late into the evening to find who had the ofending devices.

Turned out to be an old TV with the owner a few doors down, and a printer what was in a different street around the corner. I was not the only one affected by this, so Openreach had their work cut out with so many ISPs wanting answers.

[Mr+Flibbles+86]

Update – Thanks for chatting to us. Unfortunately, there was no further response on the chat in 48 hours, we are still waiting to help you. If you need our support let us know and we can re-escalate to our chat team. Your chat has been closed now. Thanks

[Martin5973]

Apologies for resurrecting an old post, but i have been continuing to undertake checks for REIN in the absence of support from elsewhere. 

I did identify a couple of noisy power supply adaptors, however, switching these off and leaving these unplugged for in excess of two weeks made no impact to the noise levels. 

Out of desperation, i decided i would re-seat the filtered fascia and replace the G.FAST to router cord with a twisted pair cable. 

Simply reseating the filtered fascia saw the noise levels drop on the router statistics. Replacement of the cable has made a further (albeit very minimal difference) and my noise levels have now been back at 3dB for approximately 2 weeks with no drop outs or concerns. 

So my question is, would reseating the filter fascia cause a reset of the dynamic line control? Is it feasible that the issue has been a poor connection within the fascia all this time? 

Finally, assuming my levels stay stable for a continuede period, how can i ensure that Sky have this logged against my account, otherwise the last notes on my account will suggest REIN in property which has now potentially been disproven. I am keeping daily logs and screenshots of router stats.