Using 5GHz Mesh with Non Sky ISP

[ukhardy071]

Hi all,

I managed to get my SkyQ boxes to become boosters with a non SKY ISP (TalkTalk). The SkyQ boxes boost on 5GHz and 2.4GHz.

NOTE THIS IS NOT SUPPORTED BY SKY OR YOUR ISP AND I DO NOT ACCEPT ANY RISKS AND/OR DAMAGE. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK AND ONLY IF YOU HAVE TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE TO RECONNECT YOUR SKYQ EQUIPMENT YOURSELF!!

I have gone overkill on disabling settings as I don't want the sky hub to be doing things for the fun of it, and want it to work as fast as possible. I also don't want to leave something on that may impact my non-sky ISP. 

Your non-sky router will do most things, including being a firewall hence why I disabled this. The sky hub is not doing anything but WiFi basically, hence the settings disabled. 

AGAIN PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK THIS IS NOT SUPPORTED.

1. WHAT YOU NEED

A Sky Hub, I got a Sky Hub 3 (ER115) for £5 on Gumtree. 

An Ethernet cable 

2. Setup:

A) Reset Sky hub to factory settings

B) Connect to sky Hub (192.168.0.1)

C) Disabled the following

Security - syslog - disable

Unticked all items to include in log

Security - Block sites - keyword blocking - Set to Never 

Security - Firewall Rules  -

Disabled IPv6 firewall

Disabled inbound IPV6 IPSec Firewall

Disabled Allow Inbound ICMPv6 Echo Requests

Schedule 

 

Security - Schedule 

Disabled all under days (every day, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday)

 

Maintenance - Set Password

I Edited the default sky login password to something more secure (sky hub 4 SR203 is secure by default, else, it is recommended to make a secure login password)

Advanced - WAN Setup 

Disable - Default DMZ Server

Disable - Respond to Ping on Internet WAN Port

Disable - Respond to Ping on Internet WAN Port(IPV6)

 

Advanced - DHCP

Disable Turn UPNP On

Advanced - ALG

Disable Enable H.323 Application Layer Gateway

Disable Enable SIP Application Layer Gateway

 

Advanced - LAN IP Setup

Disable everything you can under LAN TCP/IPv6 Setup

Ensure you have disabled Enable IPv6 on LAN side

Apply the settings using the bottom apply 

Login again

Advanced - LAN IP Setup

IP Address: Type in an IP address in the higher range of your non-Sky ISP. 

To find this, on an iPhone go to settings - WiFi - join your normal WiFi eg BT is usually BTHub6-XXX or BT-XXXXX

Click the "i" next to your WiFi 

You will see IPV4 Address

Eg mine is showing 192.168.1.152

Subnet is 255.255.255.0

Connected back to the sky hub:

On the Sky Hub, in Advanced - Lan IP Setup - IP Address - I typed in 192.168.1.250 (I chose 250 as it is at the upper end of the range that my router will assign, and avoids conflicts). 

It is important you the first part of the IP address follows the same format as the IP you have on your non-sky router.

Eg on my iPhone, I have 192.168.1.152, so I chose 192.168.1.250

If my IP Address was not 192.168.1.152 BUT rather 192.168.0.152

In the Sky Hub I would enter 192.168.0.250, rather than 192.168.1.250

If my non-sky router had IPV4 address of 10.0.1.30 I would type into the Sky Hub 10.0.1.250. 

Basically, the format is the same, just change the last bit to .250

Copy the same subnet mask as what you have from the iPhone WiFi settings - below where it gives your IP. Generally it is 255.255.255.0, so 99% chance won't need to be changed.

Disable Use Router as DHCP Server 

Apply the settings and now, connect an Ethernet cable from your non sky router (eg talktalk hub, BTHun etc to the back of the sky router).

Whilst my sky hub rebooted, I logged into my non-sky router. In my case I connected to my talktalk wifi. 

On my iPhone I went to - settings - WiFi - connected to my talktalk wifi - clicked the i

The Router (sometimes called default gateway) showed 192.168.1.1

 

Whilst connected to my TalkTalk router, I browsed to this in my browser.

192.168.1.1

it asked me for a username and password (these are typically on your router sticker with your WiFi password on your ISP hub).

Once in my talktalk router I navigated to my WiFi settings and disabled the WiFi entirely (2.4GHz and 5GHz)

I then connected to my sky hub again, and navigated to the IP address we set earlier in the sky hub. In my case 192.168.1.250

Navigate to Wireless 

Under wireless network (on the sky hub) I named the network the same as my non-sky router (in my case TALKTALK9748A1) and the network key, the same as my non-sky router. 

 

I then applied this with the wireless name and password duplicated to my normal non sky routers wireless name. So it's my usual talktalk wifi name and password. 

Now all my devices connected to the Sky Hub, but as I named it the same as my talktalk router, they automatically connected. 

Final step:

On my SkyQ TV boxes I then went Home - Settings - Network Settings and Reset. 

I did this on my main SkyQ box, and both SkyQ Mini Boxes.

I have a white sky booster, I had to hold reset on the back of this. 

If your main SkyQ TV Box is connected via Ethernet, disconnect it for now. 

Then press WPS on your sky hub (the one connected to your non sky router via Ethernet)

Press WPS on the main SkyQ TV box. 

Wait for them to pair (green light on WPS button)

For each additional SkyQ piece of equipment (eg mini box, SkyQ booster etc), click WPS on the sky hub, and WPS on the box (I had to do this for main sky box, two mini boxes and my booster. Each time, you need to go to the sky hub and press the WPS button, so it's slightly annoying) 

Once all setup, if your main SkyQ box was using Ethernet you can reconnect it BUT You must change the Ethernet so it goes into the SkyQ hub not your non-Sky ISP.  Else it will all break down. 

Now I have a TalkTalk hub that has WiFi disabled and WiFi coming out of the sky hub I got on gumtree, several SkyQ mini boxes and a SkyQ booster. 

They show up as my talktalk wifi name, and have the same password as my talktalk had. I only had to reconfigure my SkyQ stuff, every other device connected without password rentry. 

I have several boosters now using 5GHz, my main SkyQ box no longer connects via 2.4GHz which was incredibly unstable in London. 

OPTIONAL BUT RECOMMENDED: 

As a safeguard, in my talktalk router, I found my SkyQ Hub with IP, 192.168.1.250 and I assigned it to "always use the same IP address." Generally it's ok to leave this but if you know how, go ahead as there's a small chance you may get an IP conflict (unlikely as we chose a very high IP at .250). 

On a talktalk hub (sagecomm model - gold shiny dots at the front) go to 192.168.1.1

Login with the username and password from my router sticker

Clicked Manage my devices 

Clicked Manage Advanced Settings

Clicked - TalkTalk WiFi Hub

Clicked show Sections

Clicked LAN IPv4

Clicked Add Reserved Address

Found the SkyQ Hub at 192.168.1.250

Applied it

 

[bob1234]

@ukhardy071On the other hand if you have Q170 you can go into settings>network>advanced settings and enable hot spots. This only enables them on 2.4Ghz but at least it is easy.

[ukhardy071]

Yep I'm aware of this, but frankly my speeds were horrific on the 2.4GHz boosters. The ping went from 6ms to 100+ and speeds were generally 1 to 20Mbps depending on day/time. 

My biggest issue was I'm in London and I have 20+ SSIDs in range from other properties. 2.4GHz is congested on every channel 1,6 and 11 with loads of adjacent channel interference as people have setup APs to odd channels like 2, 8 and 10. 

Our properties are very long and thin so almost everyone has an extender, I see about 10 SSIDs with _EXT at the end. 

All of this means my main SkyQ, not too far from my talktalk hub, on 2.4GHz can take hours to allow me to play UHD or even HD. 

I have a few friends in London, who have the same issue but just thought "their internet sucks"

I get 80/20 sync. 

The 5GHz connection means I can play UHD instantly. 

[Rhonny]

@bob1234

You actually read all of that???! 

[ukhardy071]

Not sure what the concern is with a comprehensive post that details every step, and adds photographs for guide. 

Anyone can read the first line or two, see it's about getting a non SKY hub to use the 5GHz boosters. They can move on if it is no interest to them. 

I have some steps in there which are not "required" but aid with security / device load. 

As I have mentioned, 2.4GHz to the main SkyQ box is problematic, especially in areas of high congestion such as London and other cities (flats etc). For those people, this will hopefully be very helpful. 

[ukhardy071]

Note: for the vast majority default setup is fine. 

[Doc5907]

@ukhardy071  Do you work in IT by any chance ?

[ukhardy071]

Started in IT. Then network design and implementation projects at large scale premises (businesses, airports, hotels etc). & Distrubuted Antenna Systems (DAS), basically getting mobile signal via lots of mini indoor masts throughout a large building. 

Nowadays working in Information security / cybersecurity. 

[bob1234]

@RhonnyYes, I thought I might learn something, but didn't.

I am a believer in simple and just get a decent router, the standard BT one works fine for me and covers the whole house and garden, my daughter has an TP link AX11000 and I would get one of these if I did not have enough coverage I can see the WiFi signal about 1/2 way down her road, being tri-band with the right devices it currently removes congestion problems until more people upgrade. Expensive but not as much as some peoples complicated solutions.

[best+of+the+best]

Bit long winded @ukhardy071 but if it works for you fair dinkum.

So in theory the Sky router is piggy backing off the TT router is that correct.

[Rhonny]

@bob1234

I am a believer in simple

Agreed. One router, and two powerline wifi extenders. And all Sky boxes on ethernet. 

[TechmanagerMal]

• @ukhardy071 Does this still belong to Sky -  "A Sky Hub, I got a Sky Hub 3 (ER115) for £5 on Gumtree? "

[Chrisee]

@TechmanagerMal the er115 was supplied as a foc basis to broadband customers who did not take Sky Q for the first few years Q was around. Sky switched to a loan basis when they launched Superfast a couple of years back so the early models can be legitimately purchased. The later and better SR203 Hub is always Sky's property..

Respect @ukhardy071 never thought it was possible. Around 50% of your steps are unnecessary as the default factory setting on the Sky hub should work. The firewall stuff shouldn't matter as you bypass the firewall by connecting to the Sky hub's LAN rather than through the modem/WAN interface. Intereseting now where is my old er110....

[ukhardy071]

Yup my settings are extensive.

I operate a policy of, if it's not needed, disable it.

Unnecessary settings can use unnecessary resources (cause slowdown or crashing) and/or increase the likelihood of an attacker successfully compromising things using a feature left on. 

You can in theory just do the following:

1. Connect SkyQ hub to non-sky isp via ethernet

2. Disable IPV6

3. Disable DHCP

4. Connect to Sky WiFi name / password on the sky router with your own devices

5. Connect SkyQ devices with the WPS on the front

In terms of it being SkyQ equipment, the hub I have was not always t&c as part of a tv lease agreement depending how the user opted in.

Needless to say, I was also a Sky customer for the whole package until the SR203 DHCP and VOIP firmware bugs. 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/02/sky-broadband-finally-fixes-voip-timing-and-dhcp-route...

With a smart home & working remotely, it had to go after Sky failed to issue a remedial patch for several months.

Their executive team released me from the contractual term and they discounted the extra cost of an alternative ISP (just a few quid more but was nice of them).

Their tech team actually nudged me into this direction, & were quite happy to send out a hub for this purpose, but I could get one for a few quid down the road so saved time.

[Gazeruth]

@ukhardy071  Thanks for all the detailed steps - recently moved from Sky Broadband to Now Broadband but I've had issues with my Sky Q boxes not boosting the WiFi range, and after some searching it looks like it's restricted to a Sky router.

Going to give this a shot and see if I can replicate, will let you know the outcome (I'm fairly technical, but not to the level of knowing how to do this without a guide!) Luckily I still have my Sky Router so will see if we can get it all configured!

Also for future reference, you can 'push' the WPS button remotely via the router web portal:

It's on the Wireless -> Add WPS Client page - which saves walking back and forth to the router every time!