Rhythmical Stepping/Judder On Netflix and Disney+ on Sky Q

[supermonkeyball]

Good afternoon all. 

So I havent written about this , but have had this issue for yonks! 

When watching Netflix or Disney+ through the Sky Q box via HDMI into our Sony Bravia, there is a noticeable step, EXACTLY every second (or near enough). 

It is really noticeable on panning shots. 

I have tried the anti judder, I have tried changing framerate outputs on the box. Nothing fixes it. 

I work in Television and have seen this issue on programmes I have worked on, when an incorrect frame rate is being played back, and it's lost one frame per second etc. 

Is anyone else getting this? 

[PandJ2020]

The anti-judder worked for me - it switched from 50 to 60Hz.  Does the TV have any settings that could be adding some post-processing?

Does your TV have built-in apps to try?

[supermonkeyball]

Thanks so much for responding. 

May I ask, did you have that same, periodic stepping where it was smooth and then stops, smooth then stops, etc? 

Ill try again tonight hunting around. I dont think the TV is trying to force frame rates

Want to get it sorted before Christmas! 

[PandJ2020]

Yes, it does seem to depend on the source material though.  I'm quite sensitive to juddering (I spent years getting a satisfactory way around 3:2 pulldown) and lip-sync.

Panning or moving items exhibit it the most where they would move smoothly and then every so often (probably every second) would pause for 1 frame.

The reason I ask about native apps is that in my experience they tend to work better as opposed to an external input...

[supermonkeyball]

3:2 pulldown, now youre speaking my language haha

When you say Native Apps, do you mean like running them via the TV itself, seperate to Sky Q? 

With external input being the Sky Box

Hmmm, I can delve. 

Are there any settings within the native apps that change the output to 60 instead of 50? 

[PandJ2020]

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@supermonkeyball wrote:

3:2 pulldown, now youre speaking my language haha

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I have quite a lot of NTSC material - finally getting a player that correctly decombed the 3:2 stream to output a native 24fps was a revelation 🙂

When you say Native Apps, do you mean like running them via the TV itself, seperate to Sky Q? 

With external input being the Sky Box

Yes - it's more convenient on the Q but you can use your accounts on apps or other devices.  They may work differently/better.

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@supermonkeyball wrote:

Hmmm, I can delve. 

Are there any settings within the native apps that change the output to 60 instead of 50? 

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Probably not but if integrated fully they have better control over the TV.

[Chodley]

The "anti judder" just makes it use 60Hz instead of 50. So 24fps content (of which there is a lot on Disney+ and Netflix)  will still have 3:2 pulldown. But it's not as horrible as 60->50 conversion.

I don't know why they didn't include some multiple of 24 for that content, in the anti-judder setting. Native apps and AppleTV run that stuff at 48/96.

@supermonkeyball I assume you've got all the frame creation pap turned off on the TV?

[Rhonny]

@supermonkeyball

Never watch an app on anything but the TV's built in version. It's a recipe for frustration otherwise.

The Amazon Fire Stick is the exception for me (as my TV was no longer being updated). It seems to work very well, except for certain YouTube videos...

[PandJ2020]

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@Chodley wrote:

The "anti judder" just makes it use 60Hz instead of 50. So 24fps content (of which there is a lot on Disney+ and Netflix)  will still have 3:2 pulldown. But it's not as horrible as 60->50 conversion.

I don't know why they didn't include some multiple of 24 for that content, in the anti-judder setting. Native apps and AppleTV run that stuff at 48/96.

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Exactly - there's so many variables in the Sky box producing an output that the TV might not be able to display smoothly.

What should be a very simple process of running the source material at it's native rate isn't an option for the Q as it wants to convert it to 50 or 60Hz and then the TV has to decide how it processes it - some are better than others.  Some may work better with 60 than 50...

As noted above in-built apps are more likely to drive the display at the source rate (or multiples thereof)....

[supermonkeyball]

Thank you all. I installed the Disney app on the TV and then **bleep** with the motion processor and now I have no stepping, and just the right of smoothness that isn't liquid smooth but also isn't too blurry!

Native FTW thanks guys 

[paulstacey]

Yes I have, and it's an issue sky are well aware of but won't acknowledge. Its because the refresh rate of a sky Q box is different to a standard uk refresh rate. Watching Netflix via a TV app and you don't get the problem, watch it via sky box and it's permanently there. After many attempts to get sky to understand the problem of even to acknowledge it where they either denied knowing about it, or saying they would inform their technical department got me nowhere. So I sent an email directly to their C.E.O in the states, and within 4 days I was called by his office who not only admitted the issue,  but agreed with me that unless they recalled every sky Q box they still would never be able to prevent this happening as UK TV'S and Netflix will forever conflict when viewed via a sky Q box. 

My resolution was to accept it for a financial refund and reduced monthly payment as the problem is never going to go away. 

[Mr+Stebbings]

I had the same problem when watching Netflix thru my sky q, After trying different settings on my tv, which didn't help .Found thru a web search that the problem is the q box. So whent into sky q settings found  an anti judder settings for sky apps ,and it fixed my problem 🤔 

[supermonkeyball]

Thanks - Im going to give that a go! 

[fizzdisco]

I work in TV too @supermonkeyball  and you can save yourself a lot of pain by just using the apps built into your TV or an external source that provides frame rate matching. Sky Q is fixed to output only 50hz (or 60hz with judder reduction switched on) so you won't ever get true 24fps playback of movies or TV shows from Netflix, Prime or Disney+ via Sky Q in its current form. 

Sky Cinema gets round the juddering issue by using versions of movies that are sped up from their 24fps native rate to 25fps, then have the audio pitch shifted down to avoid them sounding slightly squeaky. If you compare the running time of movies on Sky Cinema with their actual running time on IMDB or on the Blu-Ray disc you'll see the difference - the Sky Cinema versions are almost always a few minutes shorter, because they're played at a faster speed. 

[PandJ2020]

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@fizzdisco wrote:

If you compare the running time of movies on Sky Cinema with their actual running time on IMDB or on the Blu-Ray disc you'll see the difference - the Sky Cinema versions are almost always a few minutes shorter, because they're played at a faster speed. 

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Yes, Sky doing their bit to save us a bit of time... 😁

I spent years trying to find a reliable way to play my NTSC DVD's without the horrible 3:2 pulldown.  I eventually found an Oppo player that properly decombed 480i to progressive 24fps.  But now most are available on streaming services such as NetFlix or Disney+ in HD/UHD where there's no comparison...