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This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Hi,

I wouldn't normally "butt-in" on this kind of thread, but I think some things need to be said here.

1) Firstly, it's NOT Sky that has dropped/edited/censored the episode, but SyFy.  SyFy often censor shows, because - as is the case of QUANTUM LEAP - it airs during the daytime, as well as the evening.  As with STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, STARGATE SG-1 and many other shows, SyFy like to keep things simple and only have one version of an episode airing, not different ones.  Sadly, that means they tend to cut/edit episodes to make them suitable for transmitting at anytime of the day/night, especially when it comes to some of the more mature sci-fi shows that used to be aired at 8pm or later in the evening.

So your beef is with SyFy, not Sky.

2) Now before anyone says anything, I am aware that Pick is also showing Q.L.  at 6pm, and Pick is a Sky channel.  However, because of the daytime time slot it's been given, the episodes will almost certainly be the same cut/edited ones SyFy use.  Again, it should be obvious why these episodes have been cut, even if you disagree with the editing.

3) Regardless of what the show's intent was, and even putting-aside how good the more controversial episodes of Q.L. were in tackling those issues in a mature, sensitive fashion, that doesn't mean that those episodes will be suitable for family viewing, in 2021.  The show is about 30 years old now.  As a child, I watched Q.L., and loved it.  As an adult, I look at some of the sexism from Al, and I cringe inside, as it's toe-curlingly awful.  That's not to say the show isn't good, or worthy, or both, but it was a show that seemed to sometimes want to have its cake and eat it.

4) Regardless of how one viewer may feel about not wanting cut versions of a beloved show to air, when you start throwing about words like "PC Brigade", "Woke brigade", "Wokeratti", etc, etc, frankly any value you once had in your argument, goes right down the drain.  If you want to see these shows as they were made, simply buy them, if you are that incensed by their treatment on TV.  It's not as if you can't buy Q.L. on DVD or Blu-Ray easily enough.

5) Attitudes towards people who aren't white, male, and straight have - sadly - not exactly gotten much better in recent years.  If you aren't aware of that, then you clearly don't follow the news, or history.  Just because you don't find something offensive, distasteful, crude, sexist, racist, or whatever else, doesn't mean others side with you on that.

Now, rightly or wrongly, I can see both points of view.  Several of the Q.L. episodes like "Jimmy", "Black On White On Fire", and "Raped", and several others did handle their topics fairly well.... BUT, despite me saying that, the language and content in them is still problematic, no matter the show's intentions.  I can see that.  When they were originally broadcast in the 1990's on BBC2, they were problematic to me as a youngster then, let alone today.  That's not me saying that the show shouldn't have tackled the topics it did, in the way it did, but you have to remember that problematic language is still problematic, and that doesn't change simply because you aren't the target.

Therein lies the problem.

The episode "Jimmy" contains numerous offensive of the "r-word".  It's a horrid word.  It's an offensive word, and regardless of the face the character of Jimmy comes-out on top, and is actually one of the best portrayals of disability on TV for its time, it's still an episode that doesn't exactly go out of its way to condemn the way his character is treated.  In fact, the episode basically says tolerate him.  Being tolerated, is NOT the same thing as being included and accepted.

Again, therein lies the problem.

The portrayal of disability in TV across the globe is pretty apalling.  There are almost no, mainstream shows that feature characters with disabilities.  You'll get the odd one or two pop-up in a soap opera, or serial-drama, but there are very, very few who are fully-fledged characters.

This is why TV channels are being more sensitive towards the very few portrayals that do get to air on-screen in the UK.  It's NOT about rewriting history, or censorship, or disallowing someone to not see something uncensored.  It's purely that in the current day-and-age, people who look or sound or act different, when it comes to a disability, or their gender, or race, or ethnicity are treated appallingly by society, and no TV channel wants to air something to a broad-audience (like the kind who might watch Q.L.) and then risk that word being used by others, as a form of putdown.

By-the-way, is anyone aware that when Blue Peter in 1981, tried to open-up the debate on disability on the BBC, by introducing its viewers to Joey Deacon, the next day kids went around schoolyards up-and-down the country, calling people who looked/sounded like him "Joey".  It was the new equvialent of calling somebody a "sp**tic"!  And that's another word that no one in their right mind would use today!

So let's not kid ourselve here.

Some may argue, my post is making too much of a small issue, but it's not a small issue to the person on the receiving end of that name-calling, or verbal or physical abuse.

So, please.  Let's be a bit more considerate towards others who are different from yourself.  just because a TV channel decides to edit something you don't have an issue with, doesn't mean they're being "woke" or "PC".  They're just being sensitive.  They're just trying to be tactful.  They're just trying to be respectful.

Considering we live in a world where problems between the way people are perceived, and how that results in them being treated much more poorly, or less favourably, I'd like to think that people would be a little more understanding of why cuts might be being made.

In the case of Q.L., it's two-fold:
1) The language isn't suitable for daytime broadcast, and is difficult to defend its inclusion in the episode, when it's used so much (rather than just, say, once!) AND

2) The language was problematic in the 1990's, and is even more problematic by 2021's standards.

Language DOES mean something, and words DO have power.  If they didn't, then I could write "bjshcbm dhebdbeauek usbeadueniw", claim it was the most offensive language humanly possible, and everyone would know exactly what I meant, and no one would get upset by it.

But that's not how the real world works, I'm afraid.

As Rodney King once very famously said: "Can't we all just get along?"


This message was authored by: Timelord2018

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

I'm afriad, you're wrong, TimeLord.  SyFy is owned by Universal in the UK and USA.  They are independent of Sky.  Sky is merely the conduit to which the channel reaches its audience in the UK.

Sky do not "own" SyFy in the same way you and I do not "own" Sky TV.

This message was authored by: xenon81

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Sky was bought by SyFy's parent company (Comcast) in 2018, Sky/NBC/Comcast/Universal are all part of the same grouo now,

 

Sky is the licence holder for SyFy in the UK -

http://static.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/html/tv/cs/tlcs000099ba4syfyukeire.htm

 

Sky's corporate website shows SyFy as one of their brands -

https://www.skygroup.sky/logos 

This message was authored by: nolte

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@JonD1492  wrote

  • By-the-way, is anyone aware that when Blue Peter in 1981, tried to open-up the debate on disability on the BBC, by introducing its viewers to Joey Deacon, the next day kids went around schoolyards up-and-down the country, calling people who looked/sounded like him "Joey".  It was the new equvialent of calling somebody a "sp**tic"!  And that's another word that no one in their right mind would use today

 

Speaking from my own experience as a person with a disability , that term was a popular taunt and bullying word used against me when I was a child. 

---------
ROI sky Q Customer.
If you have questions about Sky, please post on the forums and do not send me private messages about them. I'm only a customer like you.
This message was authored by: LGUser

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8


@Bigmal00 wrote:

Why are sky not showing the quantum leap series 2 episode 8 "jimmy"

I have downloaded the entire 5 series to watch when i want to find it is not available to download and is also not being shown on the syfy channel during the normal run of the programme, it would be due to be broadcast on tuesday 17th august but its being skipped from episode 7-9. I can only think they are trying to be too PC and it is due to the content  of the storyline being about a person with learning difficulties but the character of jimmy lamotta features in 3 other episodes which are available 


I can understand not broadcasting QL S02E08. But why not put warnings in the show. At the beginning, at the start of commercials, and at the end of the commercials for an on demand version. I would not be bothered with the warnings. Also make the episode rated adult so the child locks will work. Letting adults make up their own mind as to watching or not is the way to do it.

This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Hi,

 

I stand corrected on the issue of Sky/SyFy Channel ownership. So apologies from me on that.

 

In regards to including it as download only, channels don't do this, because they only buy the rights to the episodes they show, if they've chosen to omit certain episodes, they're not going to make them available, for the very reason that everyone then complains that it's only available to catch-up with and not being broadcast. It's also a monetary and copyright thing too.

 

There's also the issue that by not broadcasting it, yet still making the show available, it's defeating the whole point of not broadcasting it in the first place - namely the troubling and problematic content.

 

Ultimately, as I said in my previous post, as annoying as it might be, to those adults who want to watch the entire thing, I'm afraid you're probably just going to have to accept SyFy/Sky's decision. But for those who want it, just buy it. It's not as if you can't see it at all. It's a 30-year-old show, easily purchasable on DVD and Blu-Ray. Sometimes you can't get what you want with broadcasting, and have to find other legitimate ways to view something.

This message was authored by: LGUser

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

I have a way to watch any missing epsiodes from NBC.com. But the thing is, why is it that Sky is not showing these epiosdes when NBC is showing them? NBC and Sky are both owned by Comcast.

 

This message was authored by: Mark39

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@LGUser wrote:

I have a way to watch any missing epsiodes from NBC.com. But the thing is, why is it that Sky is not showing these epiosdes when NBC is showing them? NBC and Sky are both owned by Comcast.

 


Sky's editorial choice. 

This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

Hi,

 

The simple reason is presumably because NBC Comcast is not the same company as NBC in the USA who run and operate NBC.com, but a subdivision.

 

It's the same reason for why we don't get the same content that HBO do in the USA, via Sky Atlantic, or why the UK SyFy Channel differs to the US SyFy Channel.

 

Simply put: whilst there's almost always a (illegitimate) way to get around something like this, that doesn't mean people should do as such. It's about copyright.  Sadly too many people think they are American and think it's their right to watch whatever they want, whenever they want, in the way that they want to watch it.

 

We are not Americans, and this is the UK, last time I checked, and no, you DON'T have the inalienable right to watch whatever you want, whenever or however you want.

 

Restrictions and limits are there for legitimate reasons of copyright, as annoying as they may be to your preferred manner of viewing stuff.

This message was authored by: LGUser

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8


@JonD1492 wrote:

We are not Americans, and this is the UK, last time I checked, and no, you DON'T have the inalienable right to watch whatever you want, whenever or however you want.

 

Restrictions and limits are there for legitimate reasons of copyright, as annoying as they may be to your preferred manner of viewing stuff.


Actually, I am American. I'm also a UK citizen.

 

I don't recall TV shows in the US being censored like this. Heck, Disney+ is putting up warnings were needed instead of dropping episodes.

 

This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

The fact you are American and a UK citizen isn't really the point. The point is, you can't always get what you want.

 

As for you saying  "I don't recall TV shows in the US being censored like this", I don't think you know much about US TV history or TV censorship in general.  Plenty of shows past-and-present were cut, edited, or dropped in America, but not in the UK.

 

HANNIBAL Season 1, Episode 4 was pulled in the USA, and banned, and only made available for one week online, due to extreme violent content.

 

STAR TREK had episodes dropped in the USA, in the original run in the 1960's/early 70's.

 

STARGATE SG-1 has had episodes cut. So have shows like THE TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, NYPD BLUE, BROOKLYN SOUTH, THE SHIELD, E.R., BLACK-ISH, FIRST WAVE, and many more have all had cuts or been pulled or banned at one point in time in the USA, but not in the UK.

 

It's far more common than you think!  Every country has its own lists of shows that get cut/banned/altered, but most do it without people realising.

 

Were you aware SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE was censored in the UK just two nights ago, for its 9pm broadcast on Sky Comedy?  No warning, no notification, stuff was simply edited out on the grounds of taste, without Sky informing its viewers. They excised the musical act (Saweetie - a female rap artist) because she twerked in both of her performances, and Sky deemed that unacceptable for a post-Watershed viewing!  Yet in the sane episode, a joke about Queen Elizabeth wanting breast enhancement surgery was left in, intact.

 

It's also happened with LAST WEEK TONIGHT WITH JOHN OLIVER, both in the USA and the UK, with stuff being censored/altered to suit each nation accordingly.

 

In America, you like to do censorship covertly, and try to disguise it. The UK is often quite blunt, and will just do it regardless of a seemingly valid reason, but when pushed, our TV channels will say "Yep, we've cut this show, and here's why..."

 

Channel 4, E4, More 4 and Film4 cuts films left, right, and centre. ITV does too, both pre-and-post Watershed. The BBC tend not to cut stuff these days, except for family/children's films. Channel 5 are a law unto themselves and don't seem to care if something is cut, uncut, or disallowed.

 

Ultimately, censorship goes on all the time!

This message was authored by: LGUser

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

@JonD1492  The stuff that's edited, is it available unedited on Catch-Up?

This message was authored by: JonD1492

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

@LGUser The honest answer is "sometimes".

 

It depends on the channel. Some do, most don't, and some don't tell you until you check it out for yourself.  Some examples for you:

 

A couple of years ago, when Sky Living showed a three-part crossover special from CHICAGO P.D., CHICAGO MED, and CHICAGO FIRE, the edited episodes were broadcast, but uncut versions were available on download, but no one knew until the viewer checked it for themself.

 

Sky Comedy cut SSTURDAY NIGHT LIVE a couple of nights ago, but the catch-up version was uncensored - again, no details or notifications that it was different to the broadcast version.

 

Generally-speaking, most channels don't have the uncut version on a catch-up service. Whatever gets broadcast, is what you'll find on catch-up. The same print, the same edits, the same ad breaks. But there's always exceptions. It's just there seems to be no rhyme-or-reason to it.

 

In the USA as far as I know, for the most part, they operate like the UK does - what gets broadcast is what you'll see on catch-up with only odd or occasional exceptions. But there'll be no rhyme-or-reason to it. Moreso because some conservative states censor stuff based on State rules not National rules.

 

There are also occasional anomalies. The film ANGEL HEART starring Robert DeNito is cut differently on both sides of the Atlantic. The Americans cut the film sex, but left the violence intact. The Brits cut the violence, but left the sex scenes intact. This results in both countries having different edits, but no complete version featuring all the footage exists.

 

The Michael Mann crime film MANHUNTER and the Ridley Scott fantasy LEGEND, also have different versions depending on if you watch it in the USA or UK.  Neither version (American or British) is complete.  A completist (like me) owns both versions on Blu-Ray in order to see everything.

This message was authored by: calum02

Re: Quantum leap series 2 episode 8

It's not just the dropping of ep 8. Iv been watchin them through an every now and again. When Sam leaps at the end of the ep. It's edited to a leap he's already done earlier in series 1 or 2. Then the next ep starts him leaping somewhere completely different. Very annoying unsure why they been edited like this 

 

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