New Package That Requires NO TV Licence

[Philip1974]

@xenon81 I didn't know that about Germany. That's an even more unfair policy than over here.

As for live events, I'm not interested in any sports and whatever news clips pop up on Facebook are enough for me to get the gist of what's happening in the world. I suppose in normal times you can watch the big sporting events in your local pub.

I'm sure there are people who sneak a look at stuff here and there but I've been off live TV for a couple of weeks now and so far nothing has enticed me to watch. 🙂

[Annie+UK]

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@xenon81 wrote:

In Germany every household is obliged to pay a tax for public service broadcasting even if they don't have a TV. I think we may move towards a system like that one day to close all the loopholes that exist in the current system.

<snip>

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What loopholes?

[TimmyBGood]

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@Philip1974 wrote:

@xenon81 I didn't know that about Germany. That's an even more unfair policy than over here.

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Surely no more 'unfair' than any other tax, just more honest on the part of the state?  People are taxed all the time to generate income for governments to spend on things they can't or don't utilise personally: it's a more-or-less defining aspect of the role of government to do so.  As I said before, the Television Licence exists because UK governments have for a  hundred years decided that the BBC (and public service broadcasting in general) is a 'good thing' and this is how it will be paid for: there was never intended to be any real choice or 'fairness' for those paying.

[xenon81]

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@Annie+UK wrote:

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@xenon81 wrote:

In Germany every household is obliged to pay a tax for public service broadcasting even if they don't have a TV. I think we may move towards a system like that one day to close all the loopholes that exist in the current system.

<snip>

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What loopholes?

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The current system is like an Honesty Box in reverse. Anyone can cancel and claim to no longer watch any live TV, but there is nothing to stop them doing so. It relies mainly on the fear of being caught, the chances of which are quite low (especially for those who know their rights and refuse to speak to anyone from TVL/Capita).  That's quite a significant loophole.

[TimmyBGood]

Interesting to see the situation has developed while this thread has been open:

TV licence fee decriminalisation decision shelved

The government has decided not to move ahead with plans to decriminalise non-payment of the TV licence fee, but said it would "remain under active consideration".

The government said it "remains concerned that a criminal sanction for TV licence evasion is increasingly disproportionate and unfair in a modern public service broadcasting system".

It said respondents highlighted the "considerable stress and anxiety" the criminal sanction can cause for individuals, particularly vulnerable people.

However, the government also said it recognised there could be damaging consequences for the public if the current system was abandoned.

Mr Dowden acknowledged there was "the potential for significantly higher fines and costs for individuals who evade the licence fee requirement" under a civil regime.

The consultation also "highlighted significant impacts in terms of both the cost and implementation" of a new system, particularly as evasion is currently handled "very efficiently in the Magistrates Court".

Responding to Thursday's publication of the government's findings, a BBC spokesperson said: "The current system remains the fairest and most effective.

"The responses to the government's consultation shows the majority back the current system. The BBC will fully engage with the government going forward on how we can continue to play an important role for the public."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55754914 

[Philip1974]

@TimmyBGood That's unfortunate but not unexpected considering who's in power.

Surely this just stresses the need for a Sky package that adheres to the law for people who don't want to, or in many cases can't afford to, pay the licence fee.

[Annie+UK]

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@xenon81 wrote:

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@Annie+UK wrote:

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@xenon81 wrote:

In Germany every household is obliged to pay a tax for public service broadcasting even if they don't have a TV. I think we may move towards a system like that one day to close all the loopholes that exist in the current system.

<snip>

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What loopholes?

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The current system is like an Honesty Box in reverse. Anyone can cancel and claim to no longer watch any live TV, but there is nothing to stop them doing so. It relies mainly on the fear of being caught, the chances of which are quite low (especially for those who know their rights and refuse to speak to anyone from TVL/Capita).  That's quite a significant loophole.

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Not really a loophole though, what you have described is license evasion

Loophole

n.	A way of avoiding or escaping a cost or legal burden that would otherwise apply by means of an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law.

[Philip1974]

@Annie+UK It's not evasion if you genuinely aren't watching live TV.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Philip1974 wrote:

Surely this just stresses the need for a Sky package that adheres to the law for people who don't want to, or in many cases can't afford to, pay the licence fee.

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As I said somewhere above, subscribing to such a Sky product wouldn't create a comprehensive defence to an allegation of licence evasion unless there were no other devices in the property capable of live streaming a television channel and/or iPlayer use, which these days is pretty unlikely.  As @xenon81 indicates, those convicted typically incriminate themselves on the doorstep anyway.

[Annie+UK]

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@Philip1974 wrote:

@Annie+UK It's not evasion if you genuinely aren't watching live TV.

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Yes but that was not want the post I was replying to said

[Philip1974]

@TimmyBGood You're taking the stance that this is a dodge to get out of paying the licnce but still watch live TV. I'm suggesting this as a way for people who genuinely don't need to watch live TV, like myself, to save themselves the cost of paying for something they don't use.

You can't incriminate yourself if you're not breaking the law.

[Annie+UK]

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@Philip1974 wrote:

@TimmyBGood You're taking the stance that this is a dodge to get out of paying the licnce but still watch live TV. I'm suggesting this as a way for people who genuinely don't need to watch live TV, like myself, to save themselves the cost of paying for something they don't use.

You can't incriminate yourself if you're not breaking the law.

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You'd be surprised, there is a case where the BBC were caught out falsifying video evidence to try and get a conviction, luckily the person, legitimately without a license,  posted the original video on youtube and could prove to the court that the resulting video from the BBC had been doctored

[TimmyBGood]

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@Philip1974 wrote:

@TimmyBGood You're taking the stance that this is a dodge to get out of paying the licnce but still watch live TV.

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Nope: I'm pointing out that the 'TV Licence' is a stealth tax applied to UK households through Parliamentary legislation to fund public service broadcasting, rather than the polite fiction of it being a voluntary 'fee' as is typically maintained, and as such governments have historically been averse to permitting the creation of ways to evade it, as they tend to be with taxation in general (global social media empires, tech giants and random billionaires excepted ; )

[DelBoy2021]

This is an excellent suggestion that Sky should be jumping on as many ditch the license fee. 

I had cancelled my license years ago and then won a years free Sky subscription 😁, this compelled me to buy a license so I could be legal.

When my free year ends I will be cancelling my Sky subscription mainly because I will have to pay the BBC for something I don't use.

[Rosemary99]

Yes, please, SKY, supply a package for those of use who no longer wish to watch BBC, and wish to know that they are not breaking the law by not buying a licence.

In fact, does simply having the MEANS to watch live TV mean that a licence is required?

Special SKY package for non licence payers would be brilliant.