Challenge TV in 4:3 not 16:9

[pug1964]

This has not been answered.

@Annie+UK , please remove this as answered as it is unresolved.

[pug1964 · Accepted solution]

Interesting to note that Challenge has corrected the transmission code. 

Now correctly transmitting in 16:9.

Doubt the message to the Sky viewer relations helped, they told me it´s normal for 4:3 transmissions to have black bars on the side. Guess they didn´t read the question correctly as I told them the Chase which is in 16:9 was being coded incorrectly.

Either way, normal service has been restored

[Tangram]

There is a related problem with 4:3 content which appeared about the same time.

Previously, Challenge broadcast 4:3 content like Bullseye as 4:3 with a 4:3 flag. If you had your telly set-up properly, it would display with the black bars on the sides.

What is new is that Challenge is now broadcasting this content as 16:9 with a widescreen flag, having put in the black bars themselves.  However, this leads to a loss of picture quality**, so is unideal.

Desired solution:  Change back to the way it was done previously.  Broadcast 4:3 content with a 4:3 flag.

(**Standard Definition resolution is 704x576 at a bitrate of 2-5Mb/sec.  Challenge broadcasts at 544x576 and 1-3Mb/sec.  This makes for a bad looking picture anyway, but due to this change, it is now even worse when older programmes are being shown.)

[LGUser]

@Tangram  How does a 4:3 program broadcast at 16:9 with theblack bars added to keep it at the correct aspect ratio make the picture quality worse?

[pug1964]

@Tangram 

I doubt the level 0, now level 1 coding by the community shows your knowledge of this subject.

I have read the small print on your post and you obviously have some nice toys to play with!

The response I received from viewer relations was.......

"

Thanks for your email regarding the Challenge channel.
 
Older programmes on the Challenge, Gold or Drama channel where produced many years ago in a standard format and for them to broadcast today the picture is reduced to fit broadcast. 

Either black bars on top/bottom or sides of picture. This is not a technical fault and cannot be modified..

SKY do not own the Gold or Drama channels which are provided by UKTV.  

"

I believe Sky own Challenge TV, or the parent company does anyway.

I would be interested if you could advise the transmission parameters of Gold and Drama in both 16:9 and 4:3 , including speed, to make a comparison.

I do believe that someone realised there was a coding error on Challenge, which is why older receivers had the 16:9 transmissions displayed incorrectly, just my guess on the matter.

Thanks in advance

[Tangram]

@LGUser The horizontal broadcast resolution of Challenge is fixed at 544.  This does not change with  aspect ratio.  For 16:9 content, the 544 pixels are stretched over an entire 720 frame.  For 4:3 content with the 4:3 flag, all 544 pixels are used for the content; the television adds left and right padding.

On the other hand, when 4:3 content is broadcast in a 16:9 pillarbox as Challenge is now doing, all 544 pixels are used for both the content and the pillarbox.  This results in around 25% loss of horizontal resolution.

[LGUser]

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@Tangram wrote:

@LGUser The horizontal broadcast resolution of Challenge is fixed at 544.  This does not change with  aspect ratio.  For 16:9 content, the 544 pixels are stretched over an entire 720 frame.  For 4:3 content with the 4:3 flag, all 544 pixels are used for the content; the television adds left and right padding.

On the other hand, when 4:3 content is broadcast in a 16:9 pillarbox as Challenge is now doing, all 544 pixels are used for both the content and the pillarbox.  This results in around 25% loss of horizontal resolution.

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Yes,you are correct about the loss of resolution when the black bars are added. But the resolution of PAL SD is 720 x 576i or 704 x 576i.

[Tangram]

@pug1964 The anomalies you encountered were no doubt part of the same changes we now have to thank for broadcast-side pillarboxing.  Both changes occurred last week, and both involve aspect ratio.

Fortunately, your issue has cleared but this one remains.  It seems some smart person decided to make this change, and now the question is, how do we find this person and make him aware of our discontent?  Viewer relations, as you have found, appear to be several degrees of separation too far removed, and Challenge's more direct social media presences seem to have dried up.

For me, it's the loss of resolution.  I like the old programs.  Watching them on Challenge did not give the best PQ to begin with, but now it's even worse, and needlessly so:  Transmitting 4:3 content with a 4:3 flag is has been supported by TVs since the 90's, so I cannot fathom why they are even revisiting this.

[Tangram]

Yes,you are correct about the loss of resolution when the black bars are added. But the resolution of PAL SD is 720 x 576i or 704 x 576i.

Challenge (at least on BSkyB) is broadcast at 544x576.

[LGUser]

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@Tangram wrote:

Yes,you are correct about the loss of resolution when the black bars are added. But the resolution of PAL SD is 720 x 576i or 704 x 576i.

Challenge (at least on BSkyB) is broadcast at 544x576.

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Why is Challenge not broadcasting at the appropriate horizontal resolution?

[pug1964]

@Tangram 

I totally understand the resolution loss with the current transmission flag with the side bars added, however, I guess the individual realised that some older receivers misread the coding ( even some new ones, for example my neighbours new JVC tv ) 

Yes, how to get hold of them?

I will try to reply to viewer team with a link to this thread.

Would still like to know how Gold and Drama do their switching, never seen the problem there.

Nice name by the way, you obviously like picture puzzles! 🤣

[LGUser]

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@pug1964 wrote:

@Tangram 

I totally understand the resolution loss with the current transmission flag with the side bars added, however, I guess the individual realised that some older receivers misread the coding ( even some new ones, for example my neighbours new JVC tv ) 

Yes, how to get hold of them?

I will try to reply to viewer team with a link to this thread.

Would still like to know how Gold and Drama do their switching, never seen the problem there.

Nice name by the way, you obviously like picture puzzles! 🤣

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I don't know about Drama's broadcast, but Gold has an HD channel and HD channels work properly with 4:3 content.

[pug1964]

Sent an email to the viewer relations team, had the standard automtic reply, they will respond within 3 days!

[LGUser]

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@pug1964 wrote:

Sent an email to the viewer relations team, had the standard automtic reply, they will respond within 3 days!

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I emailed Viewer Relatons about something the other day and got a proper replay the next day.

[pug1964]

@LGUser 

Sorry, fat fingers! Automatic reply from the system, they do usually reply faster, no slur intended.