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Discussion topic: Enhanced for UHD

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This message was authored by TimmyBGood This message was authored by: TimmyBGood

Re: Enhanced for UHD

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Q-tips wrote:

 

"The Consumer Electronics Association announced on October 17, 2012, that "Ultra High Definition", or "Ultra HD", would be used for displays that have an aspect ratio of 16:9 or wider and at least one digital input capable of carrying and presenting native video at a minimum resolution of 3840 × 2160."

 


That's specific to the marketing / labelling of panels, though, not content, and intended to avoid a repetition of the 'HD Ready' nonsense which I mentioned above.  Incidentally it's now the Consumer Technology Association.

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This message was authored by Q-tips This message was authored by: Q-tips

Re: Enhanced for UHD


@TimmyBGood wrote:

@Q-tips wrote:

"The Consumer Electronics Association announced on October 17, 2012, that "Ultra High Definition", or "Ultra HD", would be used for displays that have an aspect ratio of 16:9 or wider and at least one digital input capable of carrying and presenting native video at a minimum resolution of 3840 × 2160."

 


That's specific to the marketing / labelling of panels, though, not content, and intended to avoid a repetition of the 'HD Ready' nonsense which I mentioned above.  Incidentally it's now the Consumer Technology Association.


I think these are the rules for content delivery as laid down by the Digital Production Partnership…

 

1.1.1. Ultra-High Definition
Material delivered to this specification must be acquired, post-produced and delivered as follows:
• 3840 x 2160 pixels…

 

Upscaled content was self-evidently not acquired at 3840x2160 and therefore cannot be labelled as UHD.

 

1.4. Origination
The EBU Recommendation EBU R118 is used to assess the suitability of cameras. Contact the broadcaster if there are any concerns about the suitability of a camera.
• Cameras for UHD programmes can be UHD Tier 1 or 2

 

Sky's upscaled programmes were presumably not produced with the recommended UHD cameras and therefore should not be labelled as UHD content.

 

1.9. Use of Lower Resolution Images
To maintain a high standard and meet audience expectations, the amount of material of a lower resolution than the commissioned format is limited to 25% of the programme’s total duration.

 

It seems that 100% of the content of upscaled programmes labelled by Sky as UHD is below the commissioned rate for UHD content and should not therefore be labelled UHD.

 

1.9.1.Non-UHD Material
Some UHD programmes will contain some material from standard definition and high definition originals, and sources that do not meet the UHD requirements. This material is all called ‘non- UHD’ in this document.
Non-UHD material includes material acquired using the following methods or formats:
• All SD and HD formats;
• Cameras that do not meet the requirements of EBU R118 for UHD Tier 2;
• All codecs with bit rates below those specified in EBU R118 for UHD;
• Film that does not meet the required standard.

 

Clearly, the rule which allows "some" non-UHD content in a UHD programme can't be interpreted to mean that 100% non-UHD content can be labelled as UHD. Further, these exceptions are primarily to allow the use of archive non-UHD inserts in a UHD programme and while some live sportscasts may include some non-UHD archive inserts, there surely can be no basis for describing an entire non-UHD programme as UHD.

 

Technical Specification for the Delivery of Television Programmes as AS-11 Files

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This message was authored by Q-tips This message was authored by: Q-tips

Re: Enhanced for UHD


@Q-tips wrote:

I think these are the rules for content delivery as laid down by the Digital Production Partnership…

Technical Specification for the Delivery of Television Programmes as AS-11 Files


And these are Sky's own UHD rules based on the above…

 

Sky’s Technical Specification For Ultra High Definition Content

https://static.skyassets.com/contentstack/assets/bltdc2476c7b6b194dd/bltf35286bd85eb0068/5a7b18f5fca...

 

Failure to satisfy Sky’s Quality Control may result in content being rejected or not qualifying as UHD.

 

2.1 Cameras

Cameras outputs must be compliant with the standards set out in EBU R118 for either UHD1 Tier 1 or UHD1 Tier 2

 

2.2 Shooting Resolutions

Productions should capture at a minimum sensor resolution of 2880 x 1620 and comply with EBU R118.

 

4.2 Use of Non-UHD

Content which does not meet the acquisition classification defined in EBU R118, for either UHD1 Tier 1 or UHD1 Tier 2, including but not exclusive to archive footage, will be classified as non-UHD. Programmes must not contain more than 25% of non-Native UHD content; otherwise the entire asset will be reclassified as ‘Remastered for UHD’, HD or less.

 

5.1.1 UHD Source Material

The first two categories below constitute as ‘True UHD’. In exceptional circumstances where the quality does not meet expectations, content may be rejected or where appropriate, re-classified as ‘Remastered For UHD’. Sky must be informed of the UHD source – ‘Native’, ‘Film Scan’ or ‘Remastered For UHD’ – for all deliverables.

 

5.1.1.1 Native

Native is defined as content shot digitally and conforming with EBU R118, which allows for shooting resolutions of 2880 horizontal pixels or greater.

 

5.1.1.3 Remastered For UHD

Content sourced from resolutions lower than UHD should be of 2K resolution (2048×1080) or greater, 10 Bit or greater and from a Progressive Frame (Interlace converted to Progressive will not be accepted). It must be professionally up-scaled and care should be taken in controlling noise and sharpening, as well as colour and contrast improvements. This content will be labelled as ‘Remastered For UHD’ on the Sky EPG.

 

So,  it looks to me as though Sky are breaking their own rules by labelling upscaled content as UHD when they should be flagging it instead as "Remastered for UHD".

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32B12C 2TB UHD Q box • Mini boxes x2 (32D0B2) • 2022 LG C2 OLED TV • Software vQ230.000.14.00L • Gigaclear gigabit FTTH broadband (935Mbps up/down) • Linksys Velop tri-band router; 3 mesh nodes • All Q boxes fully Cat6 hardwired • Q wi-fi disabled • Q picture/audio processing disabled (no sound bar) • Pixellation cured by Q170 but back again with Q190 and now every few minutes with Q210 and Q220 live broadcasts and recordings on all boxes
This message was authored by TimmyBGood This message was authored by: TimmyBGood

Re: Enhanced for UHD

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Q-tips wrote:

So,  it looks to me as though Sky are breaking their own rules by labelling upscaled content as UHD when they should be flagging it instead as "Remastered for UHD".

From memory there was some Cinema content which was flagged like that in the listing description.  I guess it's a question of whether they judge it's going to be confusing for the average user.

* * * * * * *

Sky Glass 55" (on ethernet) & two Stream Pucks (one ethernet / one WiFi)
BT Halo 3+ Ultrafast FTTP (500Mbs), BT Smart Hub 2
This message was authored by Q-tips This message was authored by: Q-tips

Re: Enhanced for UHD


@TimmyBGood wrote:

I guess it's a question of whether they judge it's going to be confusing for the average user.

They would have considered that before writing it into their own rule book. I think most users want honesty and transparency - and I think the risk of confusion is higher when users don't know why some "UHD" content looks different from others. For sure, if I want to see the best that my TV can deliver from Sky, I need to be sure that I am playing native 4K content - and as things stand, I'm not certain how to confirm that.

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32B12C 2TB UHD Q box • Mini boxes x2 (32D0B2) • 2022 LG C2 OLED TV • Software vQ230.000.14.00L • Gigaclear gigabit FTTH broadband (935Mbps up/down) • Linksys Velop tri-band router; 3 mesh nodes • All Q boxes fully Cat6 hardwired • Q wi-fi disabled • Q picture/audio processing disabled (no sound bar) • Pixellation cured by Q170 but back again with Q190 and now every few minutes with Q210 and Q220 live broadcasts and recordings on all boxes
This message was authored by TimmyBGood This message was authored by: TimmyBGood

Re: Enhanced for UHD

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@Q-tips wrote:

@TimmyBGood wrote:

I guess it's a question of whether they judge it's going to be confusing for the average user.

They would have considered that before writing it into their own rule book.


I don't think the average user reads the rule book.  Sky wants content providers to meet those requirements so they can then do horrible things to the data before making it available to subscribers...

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Sky Glass 55" (on ethernet) & two Stream Pucks (one ethernet / one WiFi)
BT Halo 3+ Ultrafast FTTP (500Mbs), BT Smart Hub 2
This message was authored by CardiffMan1992 This message was authored by: CardiffMan1992

Re: Enhanced for UHD

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

@TimmyBGood 

 

Well they certainly didn't do a good job with House of Dragon.

This message was authored by Chodley This message was authored by: Chodley

Re: Enhanced for UHD

Posted by a Superuser, not a Sky employee. Find out more

Has @Kayos sorted his UHD connection then?

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