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HDR Update 2019?!

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Producer
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@Ant+Man+99 wrote:

I think more people want DD5.1 sound from Player currently - then HLG.

What's the point of a super picture with naff sound???

We already have HLG here from BBC - just naff audio


@JonW42 wrote:

More people have a UHD TV then have both a UHD TV and a surround sound system. So getting UHD with HDR should be more of a priority then getting surround sound going as HDR will be better for more people then surround sound will be.

 For a live UHD/HLG bradcast, the bandwdith requirement is not cheap. Add in surround sound and it's even more bandwidth needed. I found that with the World Cup in UHD/HLG from BBC, it did buffer occationally. so it would have been worse if we were to need more bandwidth because of the sound.

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First Assistant Director
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

Had no buffering issues here - and the additional bandwidth for the audio would make very little difference.

I actually delayed the BBC-HD audio and mixed it with the HLG iPlayer feed - but should not need to do so.


@JonW42 wrote:


 For a live UHD/HLG bradcast, the bandwdith requirement is not cheap. Add in surround sound and it's even more bandwidth needed. I found that with the World Cup in UHD/HLG from BBC, it did buffer occationally. so it would have been worse if we were to need more bandwidth because of the sound.

 

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First Assistant Director
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

Have to agree there - the BT UHD pictures are amazing and show something is definately amiss with the Sky UHD transmission.

Perhaps their stream is already HLG ready ;-)


@Ant+Man+99 wrote:

BT's UHD channel really shows up the Sky Sports UHD pictures - but they use almost double the bandwidth.

 

 

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Oracle
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

@JonW42 Audio bit rates are tiny by comparison

 

Sky Sports UHD (Atmos) - 384 - 576Kbit/s.

Sky Cinema HD (AC3 5.1) - 384 -384 Kbit/s

BBC One HD (stereo) - 256Kbit/s

BBC One HD (AC3 2.0) - 192 -384 Kbit/s

 

So broadcasting in 5.1 or Atmos uses only a fraction more bandwidth. If that extra traffic would cause you issues, you better disable all email and social media on any devices using your connection as that would be enough to cause buffering.

Camera Operator
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

@Ant+Man+99  Isn't Sky's live UHD broadcast at around 35Mbps?  Does BT double that?

Oracle
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@NewtonBoy actually it's around 20Mb/s on Sky but don't agree BT use 40Mb/s they set a minimum connection speed of 44Mb/s for UHD customers but that is not the same thing. In practice there maybe a little more bandwidth used by BT but nowhere near double. AFAIK HLG adds minimal extra data as well. 

 

 

 

 

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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

BT set limitations based on what is likely to cause issues with your Internet service - as all subscription tv is streamed to their set-top-box.

They allow for the fact that you may stream UHD and record two HD channels all at once - and still want to use the Internet. So they set a limit of a minmum of around 50Mbps before you given access to UHD.

But even if their UHD is 25Mpbs - that is 25% more than Sky if Sky is 20MBs.

There is something BT are doing that makes their UHD service very good.

Sky's UHD service looks good compared to UHD - but BT UHD looks very good when compared to Sky UHD.

The  BT UHD channel looks very good on VirginMedia too.

The current BT 4K boxes do NOT support HDR in any format.


@Chrisee wrote:

@NewtonBoy actually it's around 20Mb/s on Sky but don't agree BT use 40Mb/s they set a minimum connection speed of 44Mb/s for UHD customers but that is not the same thing. In practice there maybe a little more bandwidth used by BT but nowhere near double. AFAIK HLG adds minimal extra data as well. 

 

 

 

 


 

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Camera Operator
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

I think it's higher than that.  I'll record some football at the weekend and work it out.

 

Both SDR and DolbyVision UHD on Netflix max out at 15.26Mbps.

Oracle
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@NewtonBoy wrote:

I think it's higher than that.  I'll record some football at the weekend and work it out.

 

Both SDR and DolbyVision UHD on Netflix max out at 15.26Mbps.


Bear in mind that pre-recorded UHD content can be compressed far more heavily than live - BT found that they could have reduced their bandwidth requirements by another 10MBit/s but would have introduced another 30-60 second delay into the process. There's already a 45 second or so lag on their live streams.

Boom Operator
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

Where can I see an example of Sony's implementation of HLG?

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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@JonW42 wrote:

@ozsat wrote:

Thee BBC have only ever done streaming HDR/HLG to viewers via iPlayer - and have still not got 5.1 sound working on iPlayer.


@JonW42 wrote:

@Chrisee wrote:

@atann Sky trialled HDR in a small market in Italy perhaps they found out issues that need resolving? Some people rather naively assume you just have to through a switch and voila it all works. Instead it is a tad more complex to equip, test and sign off a broadcast system when not everything works as you want first time and you can get unexpected glitches whatever the armchair experts might think.

 

They aren't holding it up to spite you. 


So what is BBC doing that Sky cannot do? BBC is able to broadcast UHD/HLG for both live and recorded programs. I don't see what the issue is with Sky. If Sky is having a problem with live programs and HLG, then just use HLG for the recorded programs like Sky Cinema and other UHD programs. That would work now.



This is not about 5.1 sound. This is about HDR (aka HLG). To be honest, I'd rather (right now) stereo sound and UHD/HLG then 5.1 sound and UHD/SDR.


You may like that., I would think its very poor. A UHD HDR image with stereo sound would be quite pathetic in this day and age.  We put man on the moon in 1969, it is now 2019 so is it really asking that much for UHD HDR with multi channel sound?

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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@CBC001 wrote:

@JonW42 wrote:

@ozsat wrote:

Thee BBC have only ever done streaming HDR/HLG to viewers via iPlayer - and have still not got 5.1 sound working on iPlayer.


@JonW42 wrote:

@Chrisee wrote:

@atann Sky trialled HDR in a small market in Italy perhaps they found out issues that need resolving? Some people rather naively assume you just have to through a switch and voila it all works. Instead it is a tad more complex to equip, test and sign off a broadcast system when not everything works as you want first time and you can get unexpected glitches whatever the armchair experts might think.

 

They aren't holding it up to spite you. 


So what is BBC doing that Sky cannot do? BBC is able to broadcast UHD/HLG for both live and recorded programs. I don't see what the issue is with Sky. If Sky is having a problem with live programs and HLG, then just use HLG for the recorded programs like Sky Cinema and other UHD programs. That would work now.



This is not about 5.1 sound. This is about HDR (aka HLG). To be honest, I'd rather (right now) stereo sound and UHD/HLG then 5.1 sound and UHD/SDR.


You may like that., I would think its very poor. A UHD HDR image with stereo sound would be quite pathetic in this day and age.  We put man on the moon in 1969, it is now 2019 so is it really asking that much for UHD HDR with multi channel sound?


Yes it is. I'd rather BBC got the video as good as it can be before working on surround sound. Maybe BBC is saving surround sound for disc.

 

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Re: HDR Update 2019?!

Who knows? The BBC are an odd bunch. On the one hand they are pushing ahead with HDR technology but we still don't have basic regional HD, something that has been "coming" according to them for half a decade now.   

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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@CBC001 wrote:

Who knows? The BBC are an odd bunch. On the one hand they are pushing ahead with HDR technology but we still don't have basic regional HD, something that has been "coming" according to them for half a decade now.   


There's a solution for BBC regional in SD. Move to Scotland where BBC One Scotland is HD.
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Re: HDR Update 2019?!


@JonW42 wrote:

@CBC001 wrote:

Who knows? The BBC are an odd bunch. On the one hand they are pushing ahead with HDR technology but we still don't have basic regional HD, something that has been "coming" according to them for half a decade now.   


There's a solution for BBC regional in SD. Move to Scotland where BBC One Scotland is HD.

LOL! Wow you are full of solutions today!

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