Reply

Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 1 of 17
583 Views

Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

I joined Sky in the summer of last year, on their 40Mbps tariff; sync speed was always close to 40Mbps.

Prior to that I was on BT's fastest fibre tariff (Fibre max?); 80Mbps, and attained a sync speed of approx. 76Mbps.

 

A few months after joining Sky, a fault developed on the line, causing connection instability & reduced speeds.

After many months, and numerous engineer visits the issue was eventually fixed a couple of months ago. (It was water ingress in one of the junctions under the road)

 

However I'm now stuck at a sync speed of only 35Mbps.

At the time the fault was corrected, I questioned this reduction in speed but was not given a satisfactory answer by Sky CS, they just blamed Openreach, claiming that 35Mb was all that was possible.

 

This is despite the line availability checker confirming my line is still fully capable of speeds up to 80Mbps.

 

I didn't push the issue further, as I anticipated it might automatically retrain back to 40Mbps after a few weeks of stable operation; this hasn't happened. 

 

Looking on Sky's website, it appears they no-longer promote their fibre broadband as being 40Mbps, and instead offer only 35Mbps.

 

Ányone know what's going on? I'm clearly not getting what I paid for.

Have I been silently downgraded?

All Replies
Reply
Oracle
Posts: 13,888
Post 2 of 17
560 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

@Quorneng If you post your router stats we might be able to see why your speeds are lower than expected.

 

Sky have recently changed the way they market broadband packages, instead of seeing the up to speed they now show the average speed, that's why it shows as 36mbps instead of the 40mbps that it previously displayed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oracles are not Sky employees, we are just customers and will not be able to assist with account or billing issues.
Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 3 of 17
503 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

Router Statistics
System Up Time: 635:20:20
PortStatusTxPktsRxPktsCollision PktsTx b/sRx b/sUp Time
WANMER15779473735350099002689751758635:18:43
LANUp345669328155552883066029755056635:20:20
WLAN (2.4 GHz)Up1620878150091380662130635:18:53
WLAN (5 GHz)Up519211262750065850635:19:00

Broadband LinkDownstreamUpstream
Connection Speed34999 kbps9997 kbps
Line Attenuation16.2 dB20.8 dB
Noise Margin10.3 dB11.11 dB
Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 4 of 17
412 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

So, does anyone have a suggestion as to why I'm capped at only 35Mbps?

Attenuation is low, SNR has plenty of headroom, line has (and is still claimed to be) capable of maxing out both fibre and fibre max tariffs.

Oracle
Posts: 36,933
Post 5 of 17
399 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

Your raised noise margin of 10+dB suggests a fault which is likely to be reducing your connection speed. I agree your low line attenuation suggests you should be able to see a connection speed approaching Sky Fibre Max levels, but there's currently no headroom in your noise margin to accommodate those speeds.

Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 6 of 17
377 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

So you're suggesting the SNR should be much higher, given the current sync rate & line attenuation? (afterall higher SNR is better)

Is that how SNR works? increase sync rate = decreased SNR?

How much better of a sync rate could I expect if the SNR was at its default target of 6dB?

 

My own theory is that the BT engineers who fixed the physical fault also manually set a target SNR of 9 or 10dB, rather than let the line auto-train down towards the default 6dB target.

 

Reason being they were sick of being called out to unstable BB caused by erratic noise on the line, and so in effect flagged either myself, or my line, as troublesome.

Oracle
Posts: 36,933
Post 7 of 17
354 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

For Fibre, a noise margin higher than the normal target of 6dB, with a connection speed below the maximum for the product you have is indicative of a fault.

 

A noise margin greater than 6dB, when your connection speed is at the maximum for the product you have indicates there's headroom for greater speed.

 

With the attenuation of your line, you would normally expect to see a maximum connection speed of 40Mbps for Sky Fibre Unlimited and a high noise margin.

Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 8 of 17
341 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

I'm  pretty sure my line is operating fault free atm.

SNR is very stable (10.3-10.4), even during peak periods.

There's no audible noise on the line, as there was prior to the repair a few months ago.

My WAN uptime is (at time of writing) 666 hours, with the last drop being due to a router reboot.

 

So should I give Sky CS a ding,  and find out if my target SNR has been manually overridden to a higher-than-default value?

Is that information Sky have direct access to? or would they need to refer it to Openreach?

Oracle
Posts: 15,265
Post 9 of 17
318 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

I don't believe openreach can set a 10dB target manually - rather that the automated system would set that if it detects noise on the line. It should reduce it over time if the line has improved.

 

@mae-3 will almost certainly be able to advise.

Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 10 of 17
306 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

According to BT Wholesale's line checker,  my current sync rate of 34999 is below the Downstream Handback Threshold for my line.

 

Featured ProductsDownstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)WBC FTTC Availability DateWBC SOGEA Availability Date
 HighLowHighLow   
VDSL Range A (Clean)8058.62018.651.3Available--
VDSL Range B (Impacted)69.242.82012.835Available--

 

I think I'll hassle Sky to arrange a DLM reset.

First Assistant Director
Posts: 2,005
Post 11 of 17
246 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)


@Quorneng wrote:

According to BT Wholesale's line checker,  my current sync rate of 34999 is below the Downstream Handback Threshold for my line.

 

Featured ProductsDownstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)WBC FTTC Availability DateWBC SOGEA Availability Date
 HighLowHighLow   
VDSL Range A (Clean)8058.62018.651.3Available--
VDSL Range B (Impacted)69.242.82012.835Available--

 

I think I'll hassle Sky to arrange a DLM reset.


The Openreach engineer should have done a DLM reset when he fixed the fault but as he didn't it looks like you are stuck on a banded profile cause the the line fault. The bad news with banded profiles if they can take from a few weeks to never clear.

 

Openreach will very rarely entertain DLM reset requests from an ISP following wholesale abuse of the system a few years ago so be prepared to get nowhere requesting it. An alternative is a Caution Counter Reset where the ISP makes the request and when the CC is reset, DLM will reset within 24 hours but I've never managed to find anyone that knows about it even though Openreach did notify all ISP's to it's availability. The only downside of CCR is Openreach only accept a certain number of requests a week.

_____________________________________________________
Sky Q 2TB v2 + 2x Mini, LG 55UH850V, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4242,
Yamaha RX-A2040 (7.1.2)
Oracle
Posts: 8,367
Post 12 of 17
230 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

@Quorneng Under the new ASA rules Sky like all isps can only advertise the speed that the median of their customers get in the evening which is why the headline speed of Sky Fibre has been changed the product still syncs at up to 40Mb/s there's been no silent downgrade. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43962878 for the background.

 

It does look like your line has been put on a banded profile so I would talk to Sky and ask them to check with Openreach as your line can handle much higher speeds. You may have to be persistant as some cs reps are more helpful than  others. In practice the extra 5Mb/s will make only a marginal difference so you may not want the hastle.

==========================


Oracles are customers and people too.
Director of Photography
Posts: 1,919
Post 13 of 17
221 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

I  notice from your stats that you have not resynced for some time. here is a good chance DLM capped your line when you were have problems and it has not returned to normal when the line was repaired. Try rebooting your modem/router and see if it comes back to normal. DLM is very quick at reducing line speed but very slow at returning it when a fault is repaired.

On Sky Fibre Unlimited.
Amstrad DRX 890
Researcher
Posts: 13
Post 14 of 17
188 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

  • Ever since a line fault was fixed several months ago, my fibre has been unable to sync above
    35Mbps. Prior to the fault I was able to max out @40Mbps. I suspect the line has had its target
    SNR manually set too high, and needs a DLM reset. Account:xxxxxxxx
  • <authentication check>
  • Perfect, thank you. Ive had a little look into your account and your broadband speed an
    stability are both preforming how they should be. This indicates to me that you're
    experiencing a wireless issue. I have some wireless troubleshooting I would like to go
    through with you today if you're available to do so?
  • Please re-read my original issue. It isn't a connectivity issue, it's a sync speed issue. The router
    is synced at 35Mbps when the line is more than capable of the full 40Mbps. DLM reset is
    necessary
  • Atm the router is operating at 34999Kbps with an SNR of 10.4dB and attenuation of 16.3dB.
    With such a short, clean line, the router should be syncing at 40000Kbps. Auto-retraining isn't
    kicking in, which suggests the DLM is either stuck, or has had auto-retraining disabled.
  • As you are on fibre we are unable to reset the DLM unfortunately. However, you can try
    resetting the router for 30 seconds and see if this resets the speed. You are currently
    receiving 35.00mb/s which is above your minimum of 34.08 mb/s.
  • Already tried resetting the router at the weekend, just tried again now, no change. As the
    customer I'm not interested in how the organisational separation of Sky/Openreach makes
    your life more difficult. When I signed up, I was quoted a speed of 39-40Mbps. I'm not getting
    this atm.
  • Moreover BT Wholesale have the handback threshold for my line set to 35Mbps, below what
    I'm receiving.
  • Can you request an Openreach engineer reset the DLM?
  • I understand that this is what you were guaranteed however, your guaranteed minimum is
    34.08 mb/s and you are receiving above your minimum as you are receiving 35.00 mb/s.
    As our system is showing that everything is fine we will not be able to send out an
    engineer.
  • Right, how about a 12.5% discount then? As I'm only receiving 87.5% of what my tariff
    promised?
  • Your receiving above your minimum, therefore we wouldn't be able to apply a discount.

 

It looks like I'm stuck with unnecessarily poor performance because of the bureaucracy and ineptitude of the telecommunications industry, at least until my current contract runs out.

 

@simon194Hmm, a Caution Counter Reset? Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Oracle
Posts: 15,265
Post 15 of 17
181 Views

Re: Sky no longer offer 40Mbps fibre? (Silently downgraded to 35Mbps?)

@simon194 is there a formal interface for CCR or is it still the limited interim process detailed here? https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/02/ability-reset-openreach-fttc-broadband-dlm-profiles-ar... .

If so, it could be that Sky aren't using it yet..

Reply
Recommended Threads
11-04-2018 05:39 PM
27-04-2018 01:07 PM
18-03-2018 02:25 PM
02-04-2018 11:08 PM
24-04-2018 08:32 PM