1gb broadband being slow

[TimmyBGood]

@TechmanagerMal 

ISPs know very well that as broadband speed heads to gigabit their customers expect similar increases over WiFi, but that's just not realistic with current generation routers built to 802.11ac.  That (and WPA3) is why both Sky and BT are overdue an 802.11ax model, but as I've observed previously, a global silicon shortage isn't an ideal time to commission the manufacture of a few million relatively cheap devices.

[TechmanagerMal]

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@TimmyBGood wrote:

@TechmanagerMal 

ISPs know very well that as broadband speed heads to gigabit their customers expect similar increases over WiFi, but that's just not realistic with current generation routers built to 802.11ac.  That (and WPA3) is why both Sky and BT are overdue an 802.11ax model, but as I've observed previously, a global silicon shortage isn't an ideal time to commission the manufacture of a few million relatively cheap devices.

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• All of which is why I asked Sky for a discounted package while we wait or a promise of the new model router as soon as it was available.
• Their refusal was coupled with a "Deadlock" email.
• A second-hand NDA prevents me from going further.

[TimmyBGood]

@TechmanagerMal 

I'd suggest they are under no obligation to do so, as long as they are meeting the guaranteed minimum download speed, because that's in the contract: WiFi speed coming anywhere close to wired speed is not.

[TechmanagerMal]

@TimmyBGood 

• Nobody expects the WIFI signal to be as low as 3Mbps irrespective of access speed nor do we accept that "higher speeds are available" applies only to hard-wired devices.
• Also, "coming anywhere close to wired speed" is a reasonable expectation in many homes, some setups however do prevent this

Edited to better express my meaning

• @TimmyBGood Is it reasonable to expect closer to the headline speed than many of us are experiencing?

[TimmyBGood]

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@TechmanagerMal wrote:

• Also, "coming anywhere close to wired speed" is a reasonable expectation in many homes, some setups however do prevent this

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No, it's not with gigabit FTTP on current hardware.  WiFi 6 may come closer (when both router and clients meet that standard) but ultimately reliable gigabit delivery to individual wireless devices is both really difficult to achieve and almost entirely pointless given the vast majority of usage scenarios don't require a tenth of that speed.

[TimmyBGood]

@TechmanagerMal 

Fundamental physics dictate that 2.4 and 5Ghz attenuate over distance and particularly when passing through building fabric. Given that maximum broadcast power from any wireless device is regulated to fall below a specified limit (because you really wouldn't want to share a room with one that wasn't limited, much less press it to the side of your head) then WiFi from a single source such as an ISP router cannot miraculously propagate everywhere within a subscriber property at full speed no matter what other clever tricks the wireless designers apply.

[TechmanagerMal]

• @TimmyBGood said "Fundamental physics dictate that 2.4 and 5Ghz attenuate over distance and particularly when passing through building fabric. "
• However if the distance is short and there is no fabric to consider (same room)the attenuation should be minimal, surely?
• Your other point, "an ISP router cannot miraculously propagate everywhere within a subscriber property at full speed"not full speed but to a reasonable level. I just want to quantify reasonable and it's certainly not 3Mbps.
• Also all other things being equal Sky would have launched FTTP offerings market ready.

[TimmyBGood]

@TechmanagerMal 

3Mbs was chosen by Sky as an arbitrary threshold figure associated with the 'WiFi Guarantee' portion of Broadband Boost below which refunds are available: it's not meant to be a target.  BT are apparently hoping for 100Mbs 'everywhere' from gigabit FTTP when their WiFi 6 Hub and mesh booster disk infrastructure eventually lands (which itself is a bit of a clue about what's practically possible in the real world of walls and congested airspace)

No major ISP launched gigabit FTTP with their own WiFi 6 router, mostly because a certain pandemic somewhat messed up global manufacturing chains which is a bit of an issue when you need batches of a million or so.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/08/technicolor-and-net-lynk-offer-new-wi-fi-6-routers-to-... 

Edit: the TalkTalk approach is interesting though, hitching themselves to the purchasing power of Amazon...

[jamesn123]

@TechmanagerMal 

Do you live in the middle of nowhere with no other radio signals passing around your house? And in your house do you only have one singular electronic device alongside the router?

I am guessing the answer to both of those questions is No. Therefore you will see WiFi speed loss, even if you planted your face/device up against the router it will not improve the situation. It is a fact that you are getting external radio & electrical interference. 

For someone with 'Techmanager' in their name you seem to demonstrate a lack of understanding and acceptance of the technical limits of WiFi devices, especially those have been designed with a budget in mind which is where the Sky hub falls. 

It is quite tiresome having to read the same discussion you have with various members like Chrisee and Timmy on every thread where someone claims to be getting less than the 500mbps line speed over WiFi. Regardless of any complaint/deadlock you have with Sky it is a simple fact that the current generation of ISP routers are not designed to pump out FTTP grade speeds over WiFi. They will rarely get close unless you put them in lab style conditions, of which the front room in your house is not, no matter how much clear line of sight you have.

I have yet to see any ISP claim you'll get these blazing fast speeds to a singular device over WiFi or even close to half of that speed. The packages are designed to serve many devices at once with UHD grade speeds which is around 30-50mbps on WiFi. As you are quite aware if you want to take full advanatge of your Ultrafast connection you need to use an ethernet cable. If you dont get the full speed via ethernet this a completely different issue and I have personally already raised this common problem we see on the forum to Sky. 

[TimmyBGood]

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@jamesn123 wrote:

@TechmanagerMal 

Do you live in the middle of nowhere with no other radio signals passing around your house?

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https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/telescopes/a29589714/town-wifi-illegal/ 

[jamesn123]

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@TimmyBGood wrote:

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@jamesn123 wrote:

@TechmanagerMal 

Do you live in the middle of nowhere with no other radio signals passing around your house?

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https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/telescopes/a29589714/town-wifi-illegal/ 

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Love that. Perhaps if we took a Sky hub there we could get 600mbps?

[TechmanagerMal]

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@TimmyBGood wrote:

@sky+1gb+broadband 

Not over WiFi: any guaranteed minimum speed (on FTTC, G.fast and FTTP) is speed delivered to the Hub.  The thing about WiFi is it is attenuated by both distance and building fabric, and will be zero Mbs not very far away (in our case about the other side of the road) which is why ISPs typically don't specify performance.

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@TimmyBGood 

In my case about 10 meters through one internal brick wall and a mostly glass door.

By the way, how far off the road are you?

[TimmyBGood]

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@TechmanagerMal wrote:

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By the way, how far off the road are you?

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About 25 metres from Hub to far kerb in each direction (quick measurement on Google Earth: we're on a corner), with at least one interior and one exterior wall in the way.

My point was more that the speed over WiFi from everyones Hub is zero Mbs way before the 100 metres limit to get gigabit over ethernet is reached.

[TechmanagerMal]

@jamesn123 posted

It is quite tiresome having to read the same discussion you have with various members like Chrisee and Timmy on every thread where someone claims to be getting less than the 500mbps line speed over WiFi. 

Sorry, you feel that way but thanks for taking the time to comment.

For the benefit of other interested parties -  It's not about speeds I expect it's about getting guidance from the forum about what to expect and how to proceed, whether to drop back to Ultrafast or even "full fat" ( @TimmyBGood ) Superfast over FTTP if that were feasible.

For someone with 'Techmanager' in their name you seem to demonstrate a lack of understanding and acceptance of the technical limits of WiFi devices, especially those have been designed with a budget in mind which is where the Sky hub falls. 

The origin of  Techmanager, which is the route of my email address, comes from the 80s when I was Technical Manager of a large Familly Entertainment Complex. Judge for yourself whether the vagueries of WIFI networking were relevant to my knowledge base then.

My extensive search for the best way forward continues .....