topic Re: PIN number for Challenge? in Sky Q

PIN number for Challenge?

himbo99 — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 07:55:38 GMT

Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

PandJ2020 — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 09:05:10 GMT

@himbo99 wrote:
I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done.

If you are referring to the settings on the box then this cannot override MDP.

However, it does seem strange why this particular programme has been rated to trigger it.

You could try contacting viewer relations (viewerr@sky.uk) but it may be metadata from the channel itself and not Sky.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

TimmyBGood — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 09:08:09 GMT

@himbo99 wrote:

I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done.

'a complete lifting of all restrictions' is not permitted by the Broadcasting Code: 'Mandatory Daytime Protection' has to be provisioned and enforced by the platform provider, otherwise several of the Cinema channels plus Sky Atlantic, Comedy and Documentaries could not broadcast their current lineup.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/mandatory-daytime-protection

This does mean that errors such as you have observed do occur.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

Toni81 — Mon, 29 Jan 2024 07:55:08 GMT

Just had to put my PIN in too to watch the crystal maze. Maybe it's incase Richard O'Brien's loud leopard print attire causes any offence 😅

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

rob6265 — Thu, 01 Feb 2024 09:57:22 GMT

It's ridiculous. I've watched the Crystal Maze since it began, now we have this nonsense. Pin number for 1 episode where the girl contestant said "I can't hear a bloody thing" Personally I find the adverts more offensive than any content in the Crystal Maze 😂

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 01:14:10 GMT

@himbo99 wrote:
Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.

The episode may contain a word or phrase that would not be politically correct (PC) today and is now rated 12s instead of PG. You may not even have noticed. This may also be a result of current events. Sky seem to be very strict on things like this and any case that may be related to current events or anything slightly offensive will be either removed or given a higher rating. He did talk about his (pretend) "mother" and I think he mentioned a "girlfriend" too during the episodes. There was also references to alcohol too with bottles of wine and dinner.

As it's a free-to-air channel, it has to be suitable for children to watch alone, and I know that Richard O'Brien did conversations to the camera. He may have said something not PC then.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

xenon81 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 09:46:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@himbo99 wrote:
Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.
The episode may contain a word or phrase that would not be politically correct (PC) today and is now rated 12s instead of PG. You may not even have noticed. This may also be a result of current events. Sky seem to be very strict on things like this and any case that may be related to current events or anything slightly offensive will be either removed or given a higher rating. He did talk about his (pretend) "mother" and I think he mentioned a "girlfriend" too during the episodes. There was also references to alcohol too with bottles of wine and dinner.

As it's a free-to-air channel, it has to be suitable for children to watch alone, and I know that Richard O'Brien did conversations to the camera. He may have said something not PC then.

Yet exactly the same programme is being shown on Freeview (to a much bigger potential audience) with no PIN protection. I think it's just a mistake by Sky. If the programme was really unsuitable for daytime viewing Sky would be breaking Ofcom rules by showing it pre-watershed on a freeview channel that can't be PIN protected on that platform.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

PandJ2020 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 10:49:48 GMT

@xenon81 wrote:
I think it's just a mistake by Sky.

I believe the metadata is provided by the broadcaster and not Sky.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

xenon81 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 11:21:48 GMT

@PandJ2020 wrote:
@xenon81 wrote:
I think it's just a mistake by Sky.
I believe the metadata is provided by the broadcaster and not Sky.

The broadcaster is this case (Challenge) is owned by Sky.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 15:27:06 GMT

@xenon81 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@himbo99 wrote:
Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.
The episode may contain a word or phrase that would not be politically correct (PC) today and is now rated 12s instead of PG. You may not even have noticed. This may also be a result of current events. Sky seem to be very strict on things like this and any case that may be related to current events or anything slightly offensive will be either removed or given a higher rating. He did talk about his (pretend) "mother" and I think he mentioned a "girlfriend" too during the episodes. There was also references to alcohol too with bottles of wine and dinner.

As it's a free-to-air channel, it has to be suitable for children to watch alone, and I know that Richard O'Brien did conversations to the camera. He may have said something not PC then.
Yet exactly the same programme is being shown on Freeview (to a much bigger potential audience) with no PIN protection. I think it's just a mistake by Sky. If the programme was really unsuitable for daytime viewing Sky would be breaking Ofcom rules by showing it pre-watershed on a freeview channel that can't be PIN protected on that platform.

One may have an older version of Freeview that does not support the PIN protection during the day, or a non-Freeview brand third-party DTT receiver where PIN protection is not supported. Ofcom can't do anything about third-party receivers. However, if Freeview are not correctly PIN protecting their programmes, one could contact Ofcom to make a complaint or contact Freeview.

Sky only can PIN protect channels on their platforms. The metadata probably stated that the programme was rated 12 and it's up to the provider to add the PIN protection.

The following episodes of The Crystal Maze that are showing in the next week are rated 12:

Series 1, episode 3 - showing next Wednesday at 1:00am
Series 1, episode 11 - showing next Monday at 5:00pm

Series 1, episode 12 - showing next Tuesday at 5:00pm

Series 1, episode 13 - showing next Wednesday at 5:00pm

Series 4, episode 10 - showing tomorrow (Friday) at 10:00am

All (except series 1, episode 3) will be PIN protected before the watershed.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

PandJ2020 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 15:51:10 GMT

@xenon81 wrote:
@PandJ2020 wrote:
@xenon81 wrote:
I think it's just a mistake by Sky.
I believe the metadata is provided by the broadcaster and not Sky.
The broadcaster is this case (Challenge) is owned by Sky.

In that case contact their Viewer Relations. Someone has fat-fingered or incorrectly set the programme's data.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

xenon81 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 17:19:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@xenon81 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@himbo99 wrote:
Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.
The episode may contain a word or phrase that would not be politically correct (PC) today and is now rated 12s instead of PG. You may not even have noticed. This may also be a result of current events. Sky seem to be very strict on things like this and any case that may be related to current events or anything slightly offensive will be either removed or given a higher rating. He did talk about his (pretend) "mother" and I think he mentioned a "girlfriend" too during the episodes. There was also references to alcohol too with bottles of wine and dinner.

As it's a free-to-air channel, it has to be suitable for children to watch alone, and I know that Richard O'Brien did conversations to the camera. He may have said something not PC then.
Yet exactly the same programme is being shown on Freeview (to a much bigger potential audience) with no PIN protection. I think it's just a mistake by Sky. If the programme was really unsuitable for daytime viewing Sky would be breaking Ofcom rules by showing it pre-watershed on a freeview channel that can't be PIN protected on that platform.
One may have an older version of Freeview that does not support the PIN protection during the day, or a non-Freeview brand third-party DTT receiver where PIN protection is not supported. Ofcom can't do anything about third-party receivers. However, if Freeview are not correctly PIN protecting their programmes, one could contact Ofcom to make a complaint or contact Freeview.

Freeview doesn't support the mandatory daytime PIN protection system at all. It doesn't matter what kind of receiver you're using. For that reason only encrypted channels on certain platforms like Sky and Virgin can show PIN protected content before 9pm.

As Challenge is available to everyone on Freeview either they're breaking Ofcom rules by showing unsuitable content before the watershed (very unlikely, Crystal Maze was a family show shown at 6pm in the 90s) or the EPG age rating on Challenge is incorrect.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:31:54 GMT

@xenon81 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@xenon81 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@himbo99 wrote:
Hello, just a quick question please, any idea why I have to put a PIN number in to watch Crystal Maze on Challenge? I've looked at the settings on my Sky Q box sky it is set at no age restrictions but it still requires a PIN to watch this particular programme. I am looking at a complete lifting of all restrictions which I thought I had done. Thanks for your help.
The episode may contain a word or phrase that would not be politically correct (PC) today and is now rated 12s instead of PG. You may not even have noticed. This may also be a result of current events. Sky seem to be very strict on things like this and any case that may be related to current events or anything slightly offensive will be either removed or given a higher rating. He did talk about his (pretend) "mother" and I think he mentioned a "girlfriend" too during the episodes. There was also references to alcohol too with bottles of wine and dinner.

As it's a free-to-air channel, it has to be suitable for children to watch alone, and I know that Richard O'Brien did conversations to the camera. He may have said something not PC then.
Yet exactly the same programme is being shown on Freeview (to a much bigger potential audience) with no PIN protection. I think it's just a mistake by Sky. If the programme was really unsuitable for daytime viewing Sky would be breaking Ofcom rules by showing it pre-watershed on a freeview channel that can't be PIN protected on that platform.
One may have an older version of Freeview that does not support the PIN protection during the day, or a non-Freeview brand third-party DTT receiver where PIN protection is not supported. Ofcom can't do anything about third-party receivers. However, if Freeview are not correctly PIN protecting their programmes, one could contact Ofcom to make a complaint or contact Freeview.
Freeview doesn't support the mandatory daytime PIN protection system at all. It doesn't matter what kind of receiver you're using. For that reason only encrypted channels on certain platforms like Sky and Virgin can show PIN protected content before 9pm.

As Challenge is available to everyone on Freeview either they're breaking Ofcom rules by showing unsuitable content before the watershed (very unlikely, Crystal Maze was a family show shown at 6pm in the 90s) or the EPG age rating on Challenge is incorrect.

I honestly doubt the 12 rating is incorrect. Sometimes when Alfred Hitchcock Presents is on Sky Arts, another free-to-air channel, some episodes are 12 rated. Yet on Freeview, Freesat, etc. it's broadcast as normal.

To reiterate; Sky can only comply with the channels they provide on their systems.

~~~~~

Additionally, I was doing some research,

As Sky is a subscription-based service, they have to adhere to more stricter rules. This also applies to the likes of other subscription-based services like Virgin Media, EE TV (paid subscriptions)

However, as Freeview is a free-to-air service, the rules are less strict. Content rated 12 is allowed before the watershed as it may not be breaking Ofcom rules and it may be considered mild enough to air before 9pm as long as it still adheres to Ofcom rules.

So basically, (IMHO) Sky is a paid service that people probably expect a higher standard than Freeview, a free-to-air service that "is what it is".

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

xenon81 — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 13:32:16 GMT

Where did you read that? It's completely the wrong way round. The rules are actually more strict on free to air platforms such as Freeview where children can access everything without a PIN.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

TimmyBGood — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 13:42:18 GMT

@xenon81 @Anonymous

I suspect it's a bit of both. Sky hardware has inherent PIN capability, so Sky content programmers can simply go by the official 'rating' and the system will apply MDP automatically.

Freeview hardware generally cannot apply a PIN so channel schedulers have to make a decision based on actual content and context: there's a difference between what's considered 'appropriate' at 15:00 and 20:00, for example, though both are technically pre-watershed, and ultimately Ofcom would rule on whether they got it right.

Re: PIN number for Challenge?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:01:01 GMT

@TimmyBGood wrote:
@xenon81 @Anonymous

I suspect it's a bit of both. Sky hardware has inherent PIN capability, so Sky content programmers can simply go by the official 'rating' and the system will apply MDP automatically.

Freeview hardware generally cannot apply a PIN so channel schedulers have to make a decision based on actual content and context: there's a difference between what's considered 'appropriate' at 15:00 and 20:00, for example, though both are technically pre-watershed, and ultimately Ofcom would rule on whether they got it right.

Key points from Ofcom:

Suitability of Content: Material unsuitable for children should not, in general, be shown before 9 pm or after 5:30 am. However, some 12-rated programmes may be considered suitable for broadcast before the watershed if their content is appropriate for children. [Source]
Broadcaster Responsibility: Broadcasters must ensure that content broadcast before the watershed does not include material unsuitable for children. This includes considerations of language, violence, sexual content, and other potentially harmful material. [Source]
Contextual Considerations: The context in which material is presented is crucial. Even if a programme is rated 12, it can be broadcast before the watershed if the content is deemed appropriate for children in the specific context it is presented. [Source]
Freeview's Approach: Freeview does not have a built-in system for PIN protection across all devices. Instead, parental controls are managed through individual TV sets or set-top boxes, and the availability and functionality of these controls can vary between manufacturers. [Source]
Ofcom Broadcasting Code: The Ofcom Broadcasting Code allows for films rated up to 15 by the BBFC to be broadcast during the daytime on premium subscription channels, provided they are protected by a mandatory PIN code. This form of protection is not mandated for free-to-air services like Freeview. [Source]

While Freeview does not enforce mandatory PIN protection for 12-rated programmes aired before 9 pm, it relies on broadcasters to adhere to content suitability guidelines and on viewers to utilize any available parental controls on their individual devices.

So, IMHO, as Freeview doesn't have the means to PIN-protect before 9pm and/or it varies by device, it depends on the broadcasters to provide the correct programme for the time of day. Seems like a looophole, TBH.