topic Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi in Broadband

G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 21:14:05 GMT

We only have access to FTTC and are due to be upgraded to Ultrafast (G.fast) next week. Are we able to skip using the Sky Hub and instead implement a Vigor 166 in bridged mode (which I understand it should be out of the box) and connect an Orbi mesh system (850 series) via ethernet? I'm guessing I'll need to adjust and input info for various settings but honestly have no knowledge of where to start. Is there anywhere I can source the necessary settings?

As an aside, I've seen conflicting comments, but is there any issue with connecting Sky Q mini boxes in the above setup using Netgear PL1000 powerline adapters?

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

Chrisee — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 05:59:47 GMT

@PapaRey there is a guide on Drayrek's site for setting the Vigor 166 in bridge mode. The authentication of the connection is down to the router Sky use a different authentication system than other ISPs which is DHCPv4 Option 61 which requiresca string of user and password in the form

anything@skydsl|anything

I seem to remember you cannot use the Orbi app to set that up you need use the web interface this article looks correctvfrom a quick scan https://digitalelysium.medium.com/configuring-sky-fibre-broadband-sky-tv-to-work-with-an-orbi-mesh-59dc855900c1

Q minis wont connect to the Orbi wifi but should using their ethernet connection via a powerline adapter but turn off their wifi which can be accessed via the engineer's menu opened by navigating to settings but entering 001 before select.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:26:00 GMT

@Chrisee that's great, thank you, and confirms my expectations. I'd read on the Draytek site that the modem is auto set in bridged mode as standard, so hopefully that will be pretty well plug and play.

I've also come across the article you linked to before and wondered if that was indeed the way to go about it, so it's good to have confirmation and a bookmark for it!

Is the powerline likely to have any issues? I've seen several posts about G.Fast not playing nicely with powerline but can't see how or why that should be an issue when connected to the orbi router or satellite.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

Chrisee — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:49:40 GMT

@PapaRey actually you do have a point about powerline and G.Fast. The issue apparently is that some but not all adapters use similar frequencies to carry data as G.Fast uses. Given you can't stop some leakage of the carrier freqencies from the mains they simply knock out the much weaker G.Fast signals the modem is trying to listen to. However don't ask me which adapters are OK and which aren't as I dont know.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:11:44 GMT

@Chrisee having had a very quick Google, it suggests the Netgear PL1000 operates between 2MHz and 86MHz. The G.fast connection seems to be variable up to either 106 or 212MHz.

So hopefully will be OK....will just have to try and find out I guess.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:32:29 GMT

@PapaRey

The G.fast signal is from about 18Mhz to 106Mhz in the UK, so almost all homeplugs will interfere with the G.fast signal when near the telephone cabling.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:46:31 GMT

@mae-3 @mae-3 @ what a pain

Is the solution then to just run an ethernet cable from one of the Orbi satellites into the powerline, rather than directly from the router which will be located close to the incoming line? That way the powerlines will be nowhere near the incoming line?

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:51:37 GMT

@PapaRey

Sometimes that will be beneficial to reduce the interference between homeplugs, house electrical wiring and G.fast telephone line.

In my research for VDSL2 and G.fast, VDSL2 needs to be separated by a metre and G.fast by about 3 metres between the signals in these two systems, remembering that the homeplugs signals will flow around the complete electrical house wiring ring.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:02:15 GMT

@mae-3 yes, the separation will be difficult considering the latter point. The incoming internet socket is only about 1m away from the closest electrical socket and there is little I can do about that!

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:09:33 GMT

@PapaRey

Can I see your noise margin on the G.fast router stats currently, if they are high because you are very close to the G.fast cabinet you may still get away with using homeplugs, eg: the noise margin would need to be around 10dB or higher mark.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:08:27 GMT

@mae-3 I don't know if you clocked it in the original post, but the G.fast isn't being installed/activated until next week. Don't know that I can provide any data before then?

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

Chrisee — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:54:32 GMT

@mae-3 thanks for the info it has added to my own knowledge.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 12:25:29 GMT

@PapaRey

The VDSL2 router stats may offer some useful information until G.fast is installed, this will indicate noise on the line of up to about 17Mhz or slightly higher frequency. And would certainly give an indication of distance from the cabinet which would be useful for calculating figures for G.fast noise margins at 160Mbps.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 12:52:55 GMT

It doesn't look good...

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:02:57 GMT

@PapaRey

It is a nice line but the distance is about 250-270 metres from the cabinet suggesting that G.fast could operate at 160Mbps but with low noise margins of about 3-6dB at that 160Mbps speed if it even makes that speed.

I think you'll find homeplugs, especially the ones you have picked and the distance from the telephone line or electrical ring would indicate an issue when using the HomePlug technology concurrently with G.fast.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:06:36 GMT

That is certainly a shame. I will try them out to see if they cause any issues, but won't hold my breath.

Would I be right to think the alternative to using the powerlines would be to just connect each of the Sky Q mini boxes via ethernet directly to an Orbi satelite (meaning I'd need to locate that sats near the mini boxes, or within cabling distance at least)?

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:08:27 GMT

@PapaRey

Yes, ethernet wiring a Sky Q box(es) to a wireless mesh node would certainly be a solution.

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:03:39 GMT

@PapaRey

You can also get an idea of the maximum speed from this link for G.fast to your premises but be advised that they usually overstate the speed before installation for G.fast by about 10-20%:-

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

PapaRey — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:09:04 GMT

Thanks @mae-3 , I did take a peek at this yesterday....

Re: G.Fast, Draytek Vigor 166 and Netgear Orbi

mae-3 — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:18:57 GMT

@PapaRey

I've estimated slightly above the highest speed for G.fast on the BT Wholesale line checker because it is a nice frequency response for the VDSL2 line even though it is about 250-270 metres, and I assume that is because the line is underground in an area that isn't too built up with good underground telephone cables that are quite young, eg: less than 30 years old.