topic Re: Subtitles with Q160. in Archive

Subtitles with Q160.

MightyQuinn — Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:06:34 GMT

Be prepared for the return of language to subtitles.

1. In the beginning there was a simple subtitles on or off.

2. Then language was added (which was good), but it meant some people objected because it required an extra step to switch them on and off, never mind catering for other languages apart from English!
3. So we returned to a simple subtitles on and off.

4. Now Q160 has introduced the selectable subtitle language again. So we now expect two extra key presses as you have to select Off or Language even if it is only one available (e.g English).

Subtitles automatically revert to your default setting when you change channel of dismiss a recording. So the "?" change is always temporary.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

best+of+the+best — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 07:59:12 GMT

@MightyQuinn What if you use voice control and say Subtitles on/ Subtitles off does that bypass having to select language if English is your default setting.

Sorry not on Q160 so can't try it out myself.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

MightyQuinn — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 08:12:05 GMT

Hi @best+of+the+best

The voice command controls the default subtitle state and is in English. There is no language selection in accessibility settings. So instant on and off (English).

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

lettice — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 08:13:19 GMT

For Q16, one of the firmware updates was;

Welsh subtitles are now available on S4C

Sounds like you are using the subtitles options from the ? on the remote.
Just use voice to say subtitles on/off.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

MightyQuinn — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 08:18:18 GMT

Hi @lettice I don't use the Sky remote (Harmony Elite).

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

IhateSkyasitscrap — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:00:00 GMT

I have no idea what Q160 is.
I don't need to change the language. There's only the option of English anyway.

An hour and a half on phone today and still not got through to anyone who can help.
Can't even speak to someone to cancel. It's only been in 3 weeks, so fed up with it.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

nigea99 — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:12:39 GMT

@IhateSkyasitscrap wrote:
I have no idea what Q160 is.
I don't need to change the language. There's only the option of English anyway.
An hour and a half on phone today and still not got through to anyone who can help.
Can't even speak to someone to cancel. It's only been in 3 weeks, so fed up with it.

As the discussion above states the language option was introduced to allow Welsh (& maybe others ) to also be selectable when available.

Q160 is the latest release of the SKY Q software (which introduced the language option)

Have you tried the suggestion to use voice control to switch off ?

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Lynx48 — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 17:50:06 GMT

But you can’t turn off with voice control on the multi room box control?

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

nigea99 — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 17:55:01 GMT

@Lynx48 wrote:
But you can’t turn off with voice control on the multi room box control?

Unfortunately the older IR only remotes that were issued with the minis can't be used for voice control, so that can be a problem.

More recent issues of minis have included bluetooth/voice control remotes.

I paid for a voice control remote a few years ago for mine as I like to you use it on my mini

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

timspinks — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:13:25 GMT

This change is such a nuisance. Please let the box remember choices rather than turning off the subtitles every time you change channel. We use subtitles for recorded programmes but not live ones when the lag is difficult. Please Sky give us back the previous version. This is unusable

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Rhonny — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:16:01 GMT

@timspinks

Just another example of how useless Sky is at subtitles. They could really do with a user group of subtitles users to advise and road test. Sky will never be as good as the streaming services, who bake subtitles into their very core.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Mick8491 — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:02:25 GMT

I will try voice control when I get home and then report back.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Kei+M — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:04:26 GMT

Annoyingly, this is a technical limitation in how the system deals with the addition of Welsh subtitles I'm afraid.

Ideally, we'd want it to work as it did but if you switch subtitles on or off using the voice control commands outlined above or go via the accessibility settings (Home -> Settings -> Accessibility) this will retain the subtitles across channel changes which we felt was a decent compromise.

Thanks,

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

AnytimePlus+On+VM — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 18:40:09 GMT

Do you have to choose English even if there is only English? Or is it an on/off toggle in this case? You should only have to choose if there's a choice. If you have to select with just a single option it's just poor, clunky UI - unfortunately we've come to expect this from Sky. The 'use voice' instead shouldn't be an excuse for a clunky designed UI.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

timspinks — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 18:53:56 GMT

Yes and we do not have voice commands. Last time I contacted Sky it was asking them to keep Eurosport so we could watch cycling. Hope we have success this time too.

How about the old interface in England, the new choice in Wales?

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Mick8491 — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 18:57:36 GMT

@Kei+M The voice control does work but there is still no capability to alter the size or colour of the font as per Amazon and Netflix.
Is this feature ever going to be implemented?

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Foubi+B — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 19:07:26 GMT

Hi @MightyQuinn -

I recently got the Q160 update. My problem is that the subtitles will not switch off and remain off!! They are marked as "off" in the Accessibility Settings.

Thank you for the suggestion to use Voice Control. So far, they have remained off. However, if I use the "?" button - even if the subtitles are marked as off, they return as soon as I either change channel or start to play a recording. I'll use voice control - thank you. Very helpful.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

MightyQuinn — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 19:10:13 GMT

@Foubi+B wrote:
Hi @MightyQuinn -
I recently got the Q160 update. My problem is that the subtitles will not switch off and remain off!! They are marked as "off" in the Accessibility Settings.

Thank you for the suggestion to use Voice Control. So far, they have remained off. However, if I use the "?" button - even if the subtitles are marked as off, they return as soon as I either change channel or start to play a recording. I'll use voice control - thank you. Very helpful.

Hi @Foubi+B I would try a power reboot of your box. Leave it switched off for a good 30 seconds.

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Kei+M — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:33:42 GMT

@Mick8491 wrote:

@Kei+M The voice control does work but there is still no capability to alter the size or colour of the font as per Amazon and Netflix.
Is this feature ever going to be implemented?

Not in the near future in terms of subtitles.

From what I understand there are some very dilapidated (in my opinion) Ofcom guidelines around how subtitles are shown that only apply to broadcast TV but not streaming services. I've stolen the below from Ofcom’s Guidelines on the Provision of Television Access Services

A1.14 Presentation: subtitling should use the Tiresias Screenfont for all subtitles. Subtitles
on standard definition DTT services should be no less than 20 television lines for
the capital ‘V’, to include those lines at the top and bottom of each character
containing pixels that are at least 50% illuminated. Although Ofcom does not
regulate equipment used to render subtitles in cable and satellite services, Ofcom
also recommends that cable and satellite platform providers adhere to the same
standards. Broadcasters are encouraged to use antialiasing techniques to help
make the appearance of subtitles clearer. Subtitles should be placed within the
‘safe caption area’ of a 14:9 display and should normally occupy the bottom of the
screen, except where they would obscure the speaker’s mouth or other vital
information or activity. It is particularly important to avoid obscuring the face, as this
conveys emotions and tone of voice, as well as being necessary for lip-reading.

A1.15 Pre-recorded and live subtitles: pre-prepared block subtitles are the best approach
to providing accurate, easily legible and well-synchronised subtitles and should be
used for pre-recorded programmes. Recommended colours are white, yellow, cyan
and green against a solid black background as these provide the best contrast.
When scrolling subtitles need to be used, any scripted material should be used for
Ofcom’s Code on Television Access Services 21 advance preparation. In addition to achieving the highest possible levels of accuracy and synchronisation, live subtitles should flow continuously and smoothly.

A1.16 Lay-out: subtitles should normally comprise a single sentence occupying no more
than two lines, unless three lines will not obscure the picture. If necessary,
sentences should be broken or reformed into more than one sentence at natural
linguistic breaks so that each subtitle forms an understandable segment. Where
breaks occur, the split should be made in a way that makes clear that there is more
to come. This can be achieved by ending the first subtitle with a conjunction, a
colon or semi-colon as appropriate, or even a short run of dots. Line breaks within a
word must be avoided.

Thanks,

Re: Subtitles with Q160.

Mick8491 — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 12:30:59 GMT

@Kei+M

Thanks for pointing that out.

I just wonder how users with smaller TV screens get on. My screen is not massive, 42" but surely on a smaller screen the subtitles are obscuring far more detail.