Sky+HD

[lindamuir88]

Hi there, I just wanted you to know that your call centre is a total disgrace. I have had nothing but problems with it since I began my sky contract. I do not have a bank account- or a credit card so i pay by giro slip every month. Every month my bill is due theres a problem- over charging or the giro slip not arriving in time. My services have been cut off a few times because of this even though it is of no fault of my own. I am now 2 months in arrears through no fault of my own and once again cant seem to get any help from the call centre. I called in at the end of January with a problem, which even though m tv was cut off was easily solved I explained when i set up a driect debit from a friends account that I would need an adjusted giro slip to pay the balance which never arrived. expecting there had been a problem i waited. then i realised today again my bill was due and the slip hadnt arrived, i called the call centre who demanded the 176.10 off me by card, which i said over and over i didnt have. I spoke to a guy called simon who told me no giro slips had been sent- then changed his mind and said they had after he spoke to his manager. I then spoke to his manager and explained that i didnt have that sort of cash to pay and had the giro slips been sent on time this wouldnt have been an issue. He basically told me this was my own fault. thoughout these conversaitions i was abusive towards the staff as i am totally fed up having the same problems over and over. not my account will be cut off again thanks to the rubbish call centre that dont listen to what you say and make up a pack of lies. I would like some sort of arrangement to pay up this big bill without dicnnection if not another credit to my account. sky is far too busy taking money to care about the cutomers who enjoy the services so much they struggle to pay for them. i think a decent review of staffing is in order. i would like a reply to this messege and if i dont recive one will be complaining to the obundosman and will expect a FULL COPY of my account history and all notes handed over to myself and the obundasman.

[Mark39]

This is primarily a customer forum and while Sky reps do post regularly they certainly won't discuss any aspect of your account here.

Your best bet is to put your complaint in writing to Sky or use their online complaints form. Bearing in mind you want Sky's help in agreeing to some form of arrangement for your bill, it would probably be in your best interests NOT to be abusive, though I understand the temptation! Also, I'd be careful about accusing Sky of lying unless you have evidence to support what you say.

It's unlikely that the regulator will be interested in helping you until you've exhausted Sky's complaints process.

Best of luck.

[milhun]

sky is far too busy taking money to care about the cutomers who enjoy the services so much they struggle to pay for them

if you cant afford it..........cancel it!

martin

[Malcolm-M · Accepted solution]

Hi lindamuir88, I apologise if requested giro slips were not sent however payment could still have been made at a bank or post office if you had an old invoice.

As of February 16th the option to re-instate an account or set up an account with the payment method of Invoice has been removed. Sky no longer offer this as a payment method.

Customers who pay by invoice and default on their payment will now have their services restricted and the option to re-instate onto Invoice will no longer be available.

You will still be able to re-instate your services by setting up either Direct Debit or Continuous Credit Card payment details with us.

We no longer offer promise to pay as an option so balances need to be cleared in full before the account is reinstated.

We can provide a full copy of the information we hold on you however you need to contact us and raise a Subject Access Request for which we charge £10. We cannot do this via the forum or discuss your account specifically as personal information should not be posted.

[sarge99-sky]

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Malcolm-M wrote:

Hi lindamuir88, I apologise if requested giro slips were not sent however payment could still have been made at a bank or post office if you had an old invoice.

As of February 16th the option to re-instate an account or set up an account with the payment method of Invoice has been removed. Sky no longer offer this as a payment method.

Customers who pay by invoice and default on their payment will now have their services restricted and the option to re-instate onto Invoice will no longer be available.

You will still be able to re-instate your services by setting up either Direct Debit or Continuous Credit Card payment details with us.

We no longer offer promise to pay as an option so balances need to be cleared in full before the account is reinstated.

We can provide a full copy of the information we hold on you however you need to contact us and raise a Subject Access Request for which we charge £10. We cannot do this via the forum or discuss your account specifically as personal information should not be posted.

---

Malcolm - Did Sky notify ALL customers personally (not via a Sky magazine insert or advert) who pay by invoice or giro of this new restriction in advance of the restriction? It's a clear change of significant contractual terms  and as such each person should surely have received personal notification of this in adavnce - if not why not ?

Sky have already been investigated (at least) once about this type of problem (although at that time on an unrelated issue but one that did change use of personal detail and thus affect individuals directly) by the ICO about how Sky notify customers of changes of contractual detail by use of leaflets :- see my post on Digital Spy back in 2008 regarding the response received at that time.

[Mark39]

Somehow I can't see Sky debating the legal issues here.

The contract doesn't appear to specify payment methods. It DOES however give Sky the ability to change the payment methods available to a customer in certain circumstances - irrespective of whether or not a particular method has been universally withdrawn.

So whether or not notice was given to ALL customers may or may not be relevant here (though the point you make is, of course, entirely valid).

[sarge99-sky]

Not interested in an online legal debate ... just a simple answer from Sky to the question :-

Did Sky tell all of those customers that they already KNEW were paying by giro/invoice PRIOR to removal of the facility that the facility would not be available in future ?

It's a simple Yes or No !

If not then there are clear issues about customers being able to pay for a service to which they have already been contracted to - I'm not saying Sky don't have the right to make changes to a particular customers payment methods if that customer has been a regular bad payer but that is a fundamental difference to a universal withdrawal of an available payment method to all customers who use that method of payment.

If Sky didn't give any advance warning then I think those customers affected have every right to seek formal advice from Trading Standards etc about a supplier fully knowing the payment methods available to a particular customer (who doesn't necessarily have a bad record) and then withdrawing those facilities without advance notice and especially when 31 days cancellation of service is in place.

I didn't actually say ALL customers - but in any case they should have done that too ! I think, especially that given the present state of the Darwin software, acts like this from Sky are only to give more people justification to seek escalation outside of Sky themselves or indeed to consider just walking away to other companies or just ditching the service. In this case and in the other similar thread (where a similar customer has paid their service but it has not been reinstated) then it's only right that customers affected question Sky's policies and their methods and especially the way in which those are communicated to the customer.Although the customer being abusive probably doesn't help matters either.

Sky (like many companies) have got to learn IMO to stop treating people just like numbers and realize that every person isn't identical, has differing personal issues and may have had a sudden change in personal circumstances (e.g. job loss or separation from a spouse/partner) especially if they value their business long-term when many people's belts are going to be tightened even more financially.

To those affected by this policy change : good luck with whatever you decide or are able to do to resolve your problems.

[Mark39]

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sarge99-sky wrote:

Not interested in an online legal debate ... just a simple answer from Sky to the question :-

Did Sky tell all of those customers that they already KNEW were paying by giro/invoice PRIOR to removal of the facility that the facility would not be available in future ?

It's a simple Yes or No !

If not then there are clear issues about customers being able to pay for a service to which they have already been contracted to - I'm not saying Sky don't have the right to make changes to a particular customers payment methods if that customer has been a regular bad payer but that is a fundamental difference to a universal withdrawal of an available payment method to all customers who use that method of payment.

---

Unless I've misread Malcolm's post, that's not what Sky are doing.

"As of February 16th the option to re-instate an account or set up an account with the payment method of Invoice has been removed. Sky no longer offer this as a payment method.

Customers who pay by invoice and default on their payment will now have their services restricted and the option to re-instate onto Invoice will no longer be available."

Taking what Malcolm says as face value, that means that customers who currently pay by invoice can continue to do so. New customers, or customers who default will not have that option.

[sarge99-sky]

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Mark39 wrote:

---

Unless I've misread Malcolm's post, that's not what Sky are doing.

"As of February 16th the option to re-instate an account or set up an account with the payment method of Invoice has been removed. Sky no longer offer this as a payment method.

Customers who pay by invoice and default on their payment will now have their services restricted and the option to re-instate onto Invoice will no longer be available."

Taking what Malcolm says as face value, that means that customers who currently pay by invoice can continue to do so. New customers, or customers who default will not have that option.

---

Yes but you've also missed the other bits ... he clearly said "Sky no longer offer this as a payment method".

So if a customer defaults by a single payment not reaching Sky exactly on time then they will have their whole payment facility removed - that's the implication and there will be no return to it despite the possibility that there may be genuine reasons why the payment didn't reach Sky exactly on time.

If a customers payment reaches them a day late they are going to pull the whole plug on that user's ability to pay in future - that is the clear implication from what's been said.

In addition if an existing customer has personal problems and has to cancel their direct debit etc because of say unforeseen circumstances there is no alternative payment method available to them - that affects EVERYONE.

Sky have removed a payment method potentially without prior notice, it could affect more customers in future too, where was the prior notification to us all that this was happening. If you want to think this is ok and acceptable (and believe the reasoning why) - then you're entitled to your opinion - mine differs. IMO there are potentially implications again with this about lack of adequate communication from Sky whether that be to one or two customers (who have made a late payment) or to the whole customer base.

My original question stands. The implications for missing a payment (when paying by giro/invoice) even by a single day are now extraordinary (and disproportionate I suggest) and could have serious financial implications for some people.Indeed on another thread there is a case of a person who's payments are now up to date and his services have not been restored so Sky have their money for a service in advance but that customer can't actually view what he's paid for !

Let's see whether Sky will answer the simple question in my last post - discussing this amongst ourselves serves no actual purpose other than to frustrate each other I suggest.

[Mark39]

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sarge99-sky wrote:

Let's see whether Sky will answer the simple question in my last post - discussing this amongst ourselves serves no actual purpose other than to frustrate each other I suggest.

---

LOL - yes I think you're probably right! Let's see what Sky say, if anything.

[samzix]

I thought virgin was bad.but better the devil you no.

sky is unbelieverble.14yrs ive been with virgin & ive never had such bad custamer service.watch this space & ill post how much it cost in calls & no free services they promise

[Eamy]

I couldn't disagree more with your blog. I have found Sky to be helpful and they always deal with any queries quickly and courteously. Perhaps you should just open a bank account and pay by direct debit, it's hassle free and easy!

[emma09]

Ive been with sky now for 3 years and never had a problem. I dont do the direct debit i just pay online 3 days before my bill is due. When ive had to call and this is rare, the problem has been resolved and usually with a discount.

I thought when you pay with a giro slip that you take it into either a post office or bank and pay over the counter, they give you a reciept and hey pristooo...... bill been paid

[jaynever+b+sky…]

ive had sky since jan this year and paid by direct debit last 2 months my bank stopped me from using direct debit with sky cos of money not in bank on time,so ive paid with debit card past 2 months,now they have suspended my account until i start a direct debit again,i cant i said,i prefer to pay by debit card over internet banking but they wount give me my service back,WITHOUT A DIRECT DEBIT are these members of b sky b stupid or what i cannot do that ive told them time after time,im sick and tired of being nice to these muppets.

told them to get stuffed with there service and they said im in breach of my contract to cancel,WELL POO FACES ITS YOUR PROBLEM NOT MINE.

SO STUFF YOU LOT

[Mark39]

Unfortunately Sky's T&C require you to pay by direct debit or (I think) by persistent credit card arrangement. As a result of the bank cancelling your direct debits, you've broken the T&C, which is why Sky have suspended your service.

It's really not a case of members of Sky being stupid, they simply want you to comply with the agreement you originally made with them. It's not Sky's fault that you can't.

Again, unfortunately, you signed up to a 12 months contract with Sky, so yes, you would be in breach of contract to cancel now.

Two things you could do: open an account with another bank, specifically to pay the Sky bill each month. Reduce the package you currently have from Sky to the absolute minimum so that the charges which are adding up are kept as low as possible.