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Contributor
tadjray
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎28-06-2012

4Mb Download speed, is that it?

Hi everyone

 

I am new to Sky Broadband, I've been with Talktak for over 2 years, the only reason I left TT is because it was Limited to 40gig, I was hopping for truly unlimited broadband with Sky would sort my problem.

 

With TT my download speed most of the time was over 7mbps! I switched over to Sky on 26 June, the date of the activation and I got this message in my email

 

"Leave your Sky router turned on for the first ten days. That way we can test different broadband speeds and sitting on your line. We will start a download speed of up to 4Mb on the first day, then increase your speeds and set your line to provide the best speed and most reliable connection."

 

That's fine, I understand that my line needs to be tested,  on My Skyunder my broadband it says

 

Your Sky Broadband & Speed Estimate

You have Sky Broadband Unlimited.

When you purchased Sky Broadband, we estimated that the maximum download speed for your line was 9.6Mbps - 16.4Mbps.

 


Which is great! But scrolling a little bit down, you can also read

 

Your Connection Details

Line testing is not currently in progress on your telephone line.

 

Does that mean all that I can get is 4mbps? Actually with several Speedtest the result is lower than that the test always return the result of 3.5 ~ 3.6 Mbps that is half of what I was getting with TT

 

 

I would like to know if this is the top speed I can get with Sky?

 

 

Some info about my router

 

The router is connected directly into the main socket

The PC is wired to the Router ( basically the same setup I had with TT, I have just swapped the router and the microfilter

 

Router Statistics

System Up Time: 60:07:44

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up TimeWANLANWLAN

PPPoA1597018428011287520:33:29
Up3853676332539500166360:07:44
Up329210929994390010160:07:23

ADSL Link Downstream UpstreamConnection SpeedLine AttenuationNoise Margin

4352 kbps798 kbps
44.5 dB26.3 dB
6.1 dB14.9 dB


 


 

any input would be appreciated

 

Thank you!

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Super User
snadge+100
Posts: 1,679
Registered: ‎01-02-2011

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

Hi tadjray,

 

welcome to sky forums :smileyhappy:

 

To me it looks like its finished (there is always at least 3 days delay between what training is doing and whats reported in MySky...sometimes more than 3 days) , I would call sky and ask them if they can manually configure your line, tell them training has finished and your getting half the speed you should, with Line Attenuation at 44db you should get about 7Mb sync rate, you get about 15% less in actual speeds because of TCP overheads (this is same across all ISPs), so you should get about 5.9Mbps on speedtests with a 7Mb sync rate.

 

im more surprised at your speed estimation, sky use data about your line from BT (estimated line length) and usually get the ball-park figure but make it slightly conservative to be on safe side, I got the exact same qoute as you and I get 16.8Mbps and my line attenuation is 26db - this makes me wonder if you have internal wiring issues that could be lowering your speeds (and increasing Line Attenuation)

 

- you aint getting 7Mb anyway, this is common with sky's DLM as it likes to sync low to make lines super stable, but can be fixed with quick call to sky, be patient as you may have to try a couple of times because not all reps are keen to do it (remember, not all of them are interested. they just "work there" and dont want to 'fiddle about' with user settings incase they break something), so if they read you the riot act (thats all you can get) patiently hang up and try again with different rep - you will get one that will do it.

 

anyway, it could be your line is capable of more than 7Mb, just you dont realise, please answer and carry out the following:

 

1) do you use any long extension cables?
2) do you have any other BT sockets around your home?
3) do you have your router next to any other electrical devices?
4) do you have your ADSL/Extension cable running alongside any power cables?
5) do you have filters on all your BT sockets that are in use?

please can you post up your routers stats, both as you have it set up now and whilst you have it in the test socket (see the 'Router Stats' and 'Test Socket' links in my sig below) please use only the short ADSL cable supplied when you move it into the test socket.

answering these questions will help determine what speeds you should be getting and if your internal wiring/setup is causing problems.

thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test Socket - Router Stats - inSSIDer - TCP Optimizer - DNS Benchmark - Speedchart
Service Updates - Troubleshooting - Pingtest - Speedtest - Do you need a MAC.?
Improve your Wi-Fi - Planner Rebuild & System Reset
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Contributor
tadjray
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎28-06-2012

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

Thanks snadge+100  for your quick reply is much appreciated

 

I've just called Sky, they run a test on the line and they said the line is OK! there is no issues! and they told me that i have to wait until the 6th of July and then i get high speed

 

for the questions

 

1) do you use any long extension cables?  NO
2) do you have any other BT sockets around your home? NO
3) do you have your router next to any other electrical devices? NO
4) do you have your ADSL/Extension cable running alongside any power cables? NO
5) do you have filters on all your BT sockets that are in use? YES

 

 

 

 

Router statistic / test socket

 

 

Router Statistics

System Up Time: 1:23:11

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up TimeWANLANWLAN

PPPoA5001370482065731:20:55
Up730755265801115713821:23:11
Up000001:22:54

ADSL Link Downstream UpstreamConnection SpeedLine AttenuationNoise Margin

5024 kbps798 kbps
44.5 dB26.4 dB
3.8 dB15.9 dB

Poll Interval: (secs, at least 3s)

 

 

 

 

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Contributor
tadjray
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎28-06-2012

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

and my connection details changed to this, my activation date was on 26 

 

Your Connection Details

Testing on your broadband connection began on 28/06/2012 and will be completed within 10 days

 

 

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Super User
snadge+100
Posts: 1,679
Registered: ‎01-02-2011

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

[ Edited ]

yeah it can take 3 days to start line training, did with me, but its always behind a few days in MySky - just monitor your connection and see what happens, I dunno why they are doing "line tests" , they can over-ride DLM and set your speed (ive had it done twice)

 

anyway, as its not finished (was slow to start) just wait until MySky reports it finished (even if you know it is from having same sync for 2 days) because sky will just fob you off again until their system says training has completed. its going up anyway, but your noise margin is quite low indicating increase of noise on the line...

 

just monitor it and see what happens, lot of people think once the noise margin gets to 6-7db thats all the speed theyre gunna get... skys DLM doesnt work entirely like that, it can reduce speeds by profiling and agressive error correction values (e.g. you had 6.1db before your speed went up... theres evidence right there)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test Socket - Router Stats - inSSIDer - TCP Optimizer - DNS Benchmark - Speedchart
Service Updates - Troubleshooting - Pingtest - Speedtest - Do you need a MAC.?
Improve your Wi-Fi - Planner Rebuild & System Reset
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Contributor
tadjray
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎28-06-2012

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

Thank you snadge+100 for all this valuable information

 

I have to wait and see...  With Line Attenuation of 44.5 dB and an estimated distance of 3.22 Km from the Exchanger I should expect from Sky Broadband / Easynet a same Download speed or a little bit better than TT

 

What worries me a bit is the low figure of Noise Margin which is about 6.4 dB, the line might experience intermittent synch problems.

 

What causes noise margin to be that low?

 

Could a damaged wire be a cause for that?

 

I have one segment in the outside wire which shows signs of damage. It's got a load of cracks, some are tiny some are large, actually you can see the part of the copper wire, which weathered and rusted.

The wire snapped and someone tries to put them back together by twisting the wires back together and cover them with tape!

 

I have reported that to TalkTalk, they offered me to book an engineer to fix the wire but at my own expense!

 

I refused at that time because I believe this was not up to me to cover the repairs of a wire which run up to the street pole.

 

I would like to have your opinion on this and how to proceed to fix this, especially if this might cause a drop of speed in my line.

 

Here's some pictures of that damaged segment


http://i47.tinypic.com/n180oj.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/339u0dz.jpg

 

 

 

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Super User
snadge+100
Posts: 1,679
Registered: ‎01-02-2011

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

[ Edited ]

I would actually expect a bit less than Talk Talk until you get it sorted manually, 6db Noise Margin is fine, that is the normal default margin for most ISPs (7db for sky) but on longer lines its usually 9db or even 12db if the line is noisey/problematic - but if for e.g your noise margin starts to drop from where its normally at by large amounts it means there is a serious noise issue on the line.

 

Noise Margin or SNRM  (Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin) - is the margin put between your broadband signal and the noisefloor on your line (all lines have some noise from cross-talk from other lines and other natural sources that cant be avoided) - it uses some of your broadband signal as the margin (thats why higher the TARGET margin, the less speed you get) when noise increases on the line the margin becomes less (because the noise and signal get closer) - so plunging/dipping Noise Margins indicate rise in noise on the line, its normal to see fluctuations (especially in evenings and peak-times) such as 1 or 2db - but if your Noise Margin suddenly dipped by 3db or more then you would know there is a problem. As you can see Noise Margin is Dynamic, so just because its going up & down in real-time does not mean your speed is too, but if you were to re-sync your router while the noise margin was below the TARGET (default) Margin (when there is extra noise on the line) then you would lose some sync speed when it re-connects as the margin is reset and 7db is put between the Noise & Signal with the extra noise on the line, the reverse is true too.. if your default Target Noise Margin is 7db and router reports 9db (low amounts of noise on the line) and you reboot the router back to 7db then its likely you would gain some speed in sync rate.

 

What causes the noise?: well, like I have said there is natural sources of noise such as crosstalk from other lines and noise from other sources, but 9 times out of 10 its something in the users home, the other 1 time its their neighbours home (or coming from somewhere else and gunna be hard/impossible to detect) - proper official BT Telephone wire (external and internal extension wiring) is whats called 'Twisted Pair' - this is where the 2 wires are twisted around each other, this helps cancel out most of natural noise, without this twisting of the wire we would not be able to get the speeds we do, what happens is in some houses the extension wiring has been done by builder or landlord and is usually not twisted pair or is low gauge copper or even Copper Clad Steel or Copper Clad Aluminuim which is very poor quality and without the twists allows natural REIN (Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise) such as RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) and EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference) soak into your broadband signal and drowns it out resulting in slow speeds / connectivity issues - a lot of people solve this by installing Filtered Faceplates which stops the broadband signal at the master socket (first socket in the house) so it cant be degraded via the poor wiring beyond it - if you dont have any other BT sockets then this is a waste of time. causes of REIN are usually things like: thermostats, halogen bulbs, treadmills, microwaves, washers etc but can be anything electrical, having router next to other devices can cause it too happen without poor wiring

 

Now about the line you have: the more breaks there are in the cable , the less speed you get as it takes more power to push the signal over connection points (so the signal is degraded each time), as for repairing it; talk talk (BT Openreach) should do it for free , as far as Im aware anything 'external to your home is BTo's cost as they pay for the upkeep of the network, I dunno why TT would be concerned about that as they would pay nothing!! they cant even argue that the line is on your property and you or someone else has tampered with it because they would need to prove that you tampered with it if you didnt say you or a landlord did, it could have been some idiots cutting wires for fun... BT shouldnt have cables/boxes on peoples walls like that if they cant afford to repair them when people damage them for fun!! - well thats my opinion, im sure someone will be reading who will want to argue the difference, but if you dont have any responsability for that broken line issue then BT Openreach (sky) should repair it for free because its external to your home...

 

looking at your pictures it looks pretty bad, a BT Engineer should install a new cable from the pole and all the way down into your NTE5 - failing that you could mend it yourself using better connection method than "twisting wires together" - you could do it properly - it looks like a connecting block may have been used, I dunno if you would gain any speed from fixing it but you wont ever know until it is fixed.

 

hope this helps :smileyhappy:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test Socket - Router Stats - inSSIDer - TCP Optimizer - DNS Benchmark - Speedchart
Service Updates - Troubleshooting - Pingtest - Speedtest - Do you need a MAC.?
Improve your Wi-Fi - Planner Rebuild & System Reset
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay Safe: Don't post any personal details or Sky account information. Plain text only in this box.
Contributor
tadjray
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎28-06-2012

Re: 4Mb Download speed, is that it?

I greatly appreciate the help and support that you have provided...thank you very much Snadge+100!!!
I have done a CCNA course a long time ago in college and all this makes sense.
I will contact Sky regarding the wire after the testing period finishes!

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